Now I'm Even More Convinced...

[Splendour]

that God has a plan.

This will sound crazy but I was looking at Coberst Globalism post. I decided to research the meaning of globalism a little more with the dictionary and encylopedia. I thought: is Globalism an End Times trend? So I went to End Times in wikipedia. While poking around in the end times of wikipedia I see that there are several schools of thought about the "end times" then I come across this name in the Dispensational prophecies section under this excerpt:

"The Antichrist, however, is possessed directly by Satan and will eventually display his true intentions. Again, in Daniel 9:27, the prophet states that at this time this "prince" will stop the daily sacrifices, (which had been resumed again on the Temple Mount). He then commits an appalling sacrilege not unlike the outrages of the Greek Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV Epiphanes ."

Antiochus IV Epiphanes who is he?

So I go to Antiochus IV Epiphanes in wikipedia. They list him as this:

"Antiochus IV Epiphanes
Greek: "The Shining One") (ca. 215–164 BC) ruled the Hellenistic Seleucid Empire from 175 BC until his death.

He was a son of Antiochus III the Great and brother of Seleucus IV Philopator. Originally named Mithradates, he assumed the name Antiochus either upon his accession to the throne or after the death of his elder brother Antiochus. Notable events during his reign include the near-conquest of Egypt, which was halted by the threat of Roman intervention, and the beginning of the Jewish revolt of the Maccabees."

It also relates this:

<u>Sack of Jerusalem setting off the Jewish rebellion</u>

Antiochus' humilation at Egypt was followed by the most well-remembered aspect of his policy, namely his confrontation with the Jews, which ignited their uprising under the Maccabean leaders. Aside from their interest for Jewish and Seleucid history, these events are of interest as among the first instances in world history -- possibly the very first -- of religious persecution, a hitherto nearly unknown phemomenon which would in coming centuries assume an important role in human affairs.

As depicted in the Books of the Maccabees, upon his return from Egypt Antiochus IV organized an expedition against Jerusalem, which he destroyed; he put many of its inhabitants to death most cruelly. He had soldiers enter the Jewish Temple and slaughter a pig (which is impure by the Jewish law) on the altar of the Lord. They set the pig ablaze and then took the meat and tried to make some Jewish men eat it. The men refused and he cut their tongues out, scalped them, cut off their hands and feet, and burnt them on the altar of the Lord.[citation needed]

After this, the Jews began a war of independence under their Maccabean leaders, defeating the armies that Antiochus sent against them. Enraged at this, Antiochus is said to have marched against them in person, threatening to exterminate the nation; but, on the way, he suddenly died (164 BC).[citation needed] The Jewish accounts are in the Books of the Maccabees, and their successful revolt is commemorated by the holiday of Hanukkah.

These Jewish sources, obviously highly biased against Antiochus IV, provide little or no explantion for Antiochus committing what seems an unmotivated and extreme provocation against a subject people which had hitherto been quite content to live under Seleucid rule -- an act that set off a rebellion which further undermined the Seleucid regime and provided the Romans with new possibilities of driving a wedge by allying themseves with the rebellious Jews.

The Jews he oppressed mockingly referred to Antiochus as Epimanes ("The Mad One") in a play on his title Epiphanes [1]. Modern historians, however, do not see a possible mental aberration as sufficient explanation for his treatment of the Jews, and sources giving Antiochus' own version are virtually non-existent.

One theory fitting the facts, held by several historians, is that following his humbling by the Romans Antiochus sought to strengthen his kingdom through the common worship of Zeus -- identified, through the syncretism common in the Hellenistic world, with the chief god of each subject people; and that, while others were able to accommodate themselves to this idea, to the Jews it was anathema. This is supported by Beavan's numismatic research showing that under Antiochus IV, Zeus replaced Apollo, who had been the main deity depicted on earlier Seleucid coinage.

According to this explanation, what was for the Jews an objection derived from religious principle was perceived by the king primarily as a political act of rebellion and defiance of his royal authority, to be punished as such. (Similar explanations have been offered for the Roman Empire's later conflict with both Jews and Christians."(end of quote)

I found it very curious that the Hellenes were the ones that performed the "abomination of desolation" (the abomination of desolation means a desolating sacrilege) mentioned by Daniel in the book of Daniel and that this encylopedia traces this time as the beginning of persecution in the world.

Of course, later on Paul was sent first to the Gentiles in Greece. Quite a coincidence that the Greeks were the ones to desecrate the altar in Jerusalem and be the first Gentiles to receive the Gospel. I guess I've got to agree with the creationists the world seems to have an order or pattern. Its discerning the pattern that is a challenge and what the pattern ultimately means.

[tame_deuces]

The majority of religious persecution are related to monotheistic religions which states there is only one god and that it is a sin to worship other gods. These are mainly the Abrahamic religions - most notably Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

I have tenfolds greater respect for polytheistic religion than I have for monotheistic religion, not the least because they are so much more open to other belief systems than the monotheistic ones.

[Splendour]

Well this thread isn't really a comparison of religious groups. I find it interesting that the bible says God is all light and Antiochus IV Epiphanes is referred to as "The Shining One".

[furyshade]

[ QUOTE ]

The majority of religious persecution are related to monotheistic religions which states there is only one god and that it is a sin to worship other gods. These are mainly the Abrahamic religions - most notably Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

I have tenfolds greater respect for polytheistic religion than I have for monotheistic religion, not the least because they are so much more open to other belief systems than the monotheistic ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

your a little bit off. there are three major universalizing religions, religions that believe that their religion is true and should be accepted by everyone. these are Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. then there are ethnic religions, who believe their religion is true for them and not necessarily for everyone.

judaism is a sort of outlier in between the two, but judaism is a religion that has never to my knowledge actively tried to spread and convert. Buddhism is a universalizing religion, but it one that tends to allow for dual belief, both in a native religion and buddhism, which is why you don't see many buddhist persecutions.

[tame_deuces]

Well, I find that interpretations of bible passages to mean specific past or current events will fit almost anything if you put your mind to it.

[furyshade]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, I find that interpretations of bible passages to mean specific past or current events will fit almost anything if you put your mind to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

also, it is very easy to prophecize events that happen shortly after "biblical" times when most of this was actually written down ~1000 years later

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
Well this thread isn't really a comparison of religious groups. I find it interesting that the bible says God is all light and Antiochus IV Epiphanes is referred to as "The Shining One".

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to buy a TV.

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The majority of religious persecution are related to monotheistic religions which states there is only one god and that it is a sin to worship other gods. These are mainly the Abrahamic religions - most notably Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

I have tenfolds greater respect for polytheistic religion than I have for monotheistic religion, not the least because they are so much more open to other belief systems than the monotheistic ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

your a little bit off. there are three major universalizing religions, religions that believe that their religion is true and should be accepted by everyone. these are Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. then there are ethnic religions, who believe their religion is true for them and not necessarily for everyone.

judaism is a sort of outlier in between the two, but judaism is a religion that has never to my knowledge actively tried to spread and convert. Buddhism is a universalizing religion, but it one that tends to allow for dual belief, both in a native religion and buddhism, which is why you don't see many buddhist persecutions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its the entire thing of viewing other religion as a sin that bugs me.

Christianity is indeed the religion that has the least tolerance for other religion, plus that it encourages spread of belief - a horrible combination if you ask me.

[Splendour]

But I didn't interpret a bible passage. It was more like I was researching one topic and by accident came upon a part of significant history that directly relates to biblical history. I've never heard any church or bible study groups that discussed this topic.

Its very unusual that this ruler just decides to go to Jerusalem and perform an atrocity against a people for absolutely no known reason at all and he just happens to be the Shining One.

[tame_deuces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, I find that interpretations of bible passages to mean specific past or current events will fit almost anything if you put your mind to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

also, it is very easy to prophecize events that happen shortly after "biblical" times when most of this was actually written down ~1000 years later

[/ QUOTE ]

That is also a good point. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]