Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games Study Group - Day Two

mattnxtc · #1 09-30-2007, 08:34 PM

Part 2: Playing in a Steal Situation

The range Stox suggest for stealing blinds is an interesting one. I dont know that I would open myself up as far as he does, where he is raising as light as 76s from the CO. I would be interested to see what all of yall think on it.

The next section of this deals with a look at raising vs calling vs folding preflop in steal situations to get a sense of what is good and what is bad.

I dont know that I fully understand some of the charts shown. It looks like all of the players folded in situations where it doesnt make sense and I assume they were time outs type situations.

He makes the interesting point that 22 is not profitable on the button from their trials, I assume it means we should just be calling with it??

The best statement I saw from Stox on this was that your opening range needs to be based on your ability to outplay your opponents.

What else???

TheHip41 · #2 09-30-2007, 08:41 PM

22 and 33 otb i usually fold, they are so hard to play postflp

mattnxtc · #3 09-30-2007, 08:43 PM

I agree...against a limper i probably at least call...he seems to think we can profitably play 33 which would be extremely close at least for me.

vmacosta · #4 10-01-2007, 12:59 AM

my db shows 22 as a big loser and 33 as a solid winner.

limited sample size and all, but Stox is getting similar results and its kinda hard to see why...

MicroBob · #5 10-01-2007, 02:50 AM

can there really be that many situations where your 33 is up against A2 or something and you get a call down on a 742 flop or something?

Honestly, I can think of no earthly reason why 33 should perform that much better than 22. To my mind they should be essentially the same to the extent that if one is or isn't playable then so is the other one.
I know you have to draw the line somewhere and doing so at 44 instead of 33 just seems arbitrary. But I would like more concrete reasons WHY 33 is supposedly so much better than 22 besides just the ptracker results. There has to be SOME reason or situations that make it better that I'm just not considering.

In other news: I was playing a little NL tonight and lost an all-in with my set of 2's against my opponents' set of 3's.
Tuck!

stoxtrader · #6 10-01-2007, 11:02 AM

not that many more situations, but 33 gets counterfeited (very)slightly less, makes 1 more straight and gets set over setted (very) slightly less. Add to the times 3x makes a higher pair and you get a few trials like this.

Gurravasa · #7 10-01-2007, 11:35 AM

I usually open with any pair from BTN, but my stats are red for 22-44 after that all pair are solid winners.

mattnxtc · #8 10-01-2007, 11:48 AM

Yeah I am in the red as well..I think I need to limit my raises from the button in those situations only to when the BB has a fold to steal ratio that is pretty high.

Absolution · #9 10-01-2007, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I am in the red as well..I think I need to limit my raises from the button in those situations only to when the BB has a fold to steal ratio that is pretty high.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rake makes a difference here as well doesn't it?

mattnxtc · #10 10-01-2007, 12:07 PM

If we can steal the blinds then no they shouldnt make any difference...but yeah especially at our limits I think we need to tighten up significantly if we think there is a reasonable expectation of beign called.