The Official NHL Playoffs Thread

[Hopey]

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No way in hell Kovalchuk would be challenging people to fights if he didn't care.

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Kovalchuk fought Avery because he was pissed off after Avery pushed him from behind as Kovalchuk was leaving the ice. Avery had obviously been pushing his buttons all game, and this was the final straw. The fight was more a testament to his ability to get under peoples' skin, rather than a testament to Kovalchuk's dedication to the game.

A more convincing argument would be the play of Jagr and Nylander. They're lighting it up...despite their European upbringing. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

What remains to be seen is how Jagr and Nylander react in the next round, when they have to face a much tighter-checking team in either Ottawa or Buffalo.

[Hopey]

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the fact that you listen to don cherry at all disappoints me.

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I usually turn the channel when "Coach's Corner" comes on. I really can't stand the guy. However, I have heard the "Europeans don't care about the Stanley Cup playoffs" statement attributed to him enough times that I knew I'd be accused of parroting him when I made a similar comment.

However, unlike Don Cherry, I have taken great pains to point out that I'm not painting all European players with the same brush. For instance, Alfredsson is busting his ass every night for Ottawa, and Jagr and Nylander are lighting it up in New York. However, there is a definite subset of European superstars who seem to disappear every single playoff series. They have multi-year long-term contracts, so "raising their value" doesn't really factor into their motivation level.

It's guys like Yashin, Hossa, and Kovalchuk who get my goat. They're just going through the motions, waiting for their series to be over so they can join their Russian national team in time for the World Championships. Thankfully the Sens no longer have guys like this on their roster.

[Triumph36]

the irony is perfect - alfredsson has been accused for years of dogging it by ottawa fans, and now he's the leader? why, because this year he's scoring and other years he wasn't?

kovalchuk's played exactly 0 playoff series before this year and was accused of being selfish before he got to the nhl. hossa's had his post season moments and i think he may be playing through a concussion. tell me yashin didn't care against the devils in 98 when he looked positively dominant. yeah, yashin's finished now - the point is these wide-sweeping claims don't make much sense. keith tkachuk and mike gartner come to mind as perennial playoff flops - they're north american. joe thornton - canadian. eric lindros - canadian. the russians growing up and playing hockey now, their favorite players spent their careers in the nhl.

[Hopey]

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the irony is perfect - alfredsson has been accused for years of dogging it by ottawa fans, and now he's the leader?

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All I said was that Alfredsson has been busting his ass so far in the playoffs. Is this not the case? And you're right, thanks to their disappointment after early-round playoff exits, Ottawa fans have looked for scapegoats to blame. As Ottawa's captain, Alfredsson was a target. Before him, Yashin was the target. While I always agreed with the criticism of Yashin, I always felt that Alfredsson was getting a bad rap. If you watch the games, he's *always* busting his butt -- even if his name doesn't always appear on the score sheet.

This is irrelevant as my argument isn't that *all* European players dog it in the playoffs.My argument is that they're more likely to do so than North American players due to the fact that the Stanley Cup means more to the average North American player than it does to a European player.

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kovalchuk's played exactly 0 playoff series before this year and was accused of being selfish before he got to the nhl.

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And it looks like he's being selfish in the playoffs now, too.

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hossa's had his post season moments and i think he may be playing through a concussion.

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He has zero points, is a -5, and has only 7 shots on goal so far in the playoffs. This comes after a season in which he scored 43 goals. Maybe he has a concussion, but I did a search on Google and couldn't find any mention of it.

[Triumph36]

of course you didn't find a mention of it - he got his head slammed in game 2 and returned after that.

your contention is still foolishness and at heart xenophobic. for every european you can name who supposedly isn't any good in the playoffs, i can name a north american who isn't, and 3 other europeans who've won Stanley Cups. championships are championships - to accuse these players of simply want to go home to play for russia in the meaningless world championships is painting players with far too broad a brush.

when the mostly north american flames get trounced from the playoffs by the mostly european red wings, maybe we'll see this attitude start to go away.

[bluef0x]

Hopey,
You are forgetting that some LOVE competition. They could be making a pretty penny in their home country while being even bigger stars there if they wanted. Instead, they come across to see how they stack up vs the best. Plus, you basically named 3 Europeans (and I disagree about Kovalchuk) and labeled almost all euros based on those 3. Why don't you name more than 3? Because I can name more than 3 NA players who don't care in the regular and post-season.

You are starting to sound like Don Cherry [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: I doubt they all want the season to end just so they can go join their national team... I don't even know why you would say such a thing without backing it up.

[Hopey]

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Hopey,
You are forgetting that some LOVE competition.

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I'm not forgetting that at all. There are plenty of European hockey players who live to compete with the best in the world. Nicklas Lidstrom comes to mind.

However, there are also guys like Yashin and Mogilny, who couldn't be bothered to step it up in the playoffs. Unless it was a contract year, of course.

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They could be making a pretty penny in their home country while being even bigger stars there if they wanted.

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They'll never make as much in Europe as they would in North America. A few of the mid-range European NHLers can make about the same in Europe (as they are considered stars there), but there's a very good reason that all of the best players in the world come to play in the NHL -- and I'd argue that it has more to do with money than the level of competition that is offered.

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Instead, they come across to see how they stack up vs the best. Plus, you basically named 3 Europeans (and I disagree about Kovalchuk) and labeled almost all euros based on those 3.

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Nope, I said that the average European player is more likely to care less about the Stanley Cup playoffs than the average North American player. The North Americans grew up with the Stanley Cup playoffs, the Europeans did not.

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Why don't you name more than 3? Because I can name more than 3 NA players who don't care in the regular and post-season.


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This would really just comes down to our personal opinion as to what constitutes a poor playoff performer. And I agree that not every North American player is a solid playoff performer, of course.

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You are starting to sound like Don Cherry [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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I honestly can't stand Don Cherry, really. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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EDIT: I doubt they all want the season to end just so they can go join their national team... I don't even know why you would say such a thing without backing it up.

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The Hockey World championships are a MUCH bigger deal in the rest of the world than they are in North America. They get overshadowed in North America due to the fact that they occur during the Stanley Cup playoffs. I'm not sure how I can "prove" this to you, as I doubt there have been any polls done to gauge the average European's preference between the Stanley Cup and the World Championships.

[Zurvan]

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EDIT: I doubt they all want the season to end just so they can go join their national team... I don't even know why you would say such a thing without backing it up.


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My wife's brother is good friends with a former Ranger's brother. He says this all the time about some of the European players on that team, who would openly say they didn't want to make the playoffs, because they would miss the World Championships, or have to stay in the US longer.

[g-bebe]

Don't know if anyone noticed, I only watched a glimpse before turning off the TV after the Canucks game, but the Sea of Red in Calgary was insane. You could count the people not wearing red on one hand. Very cool to see the entire crowd like that.

[niss]

God the refereeing in this Rangers/Thrashers game tonight is dreadful.