Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[IHaveStrong9]

so i dont want to read through 32 pages of this stuff, anyone have cliff notes? did the guy get his 47 grand back?

[romanwarrior]

It was a hot girl not a guy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[syncmaster]

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so i dont want to read through 32 pages of this stuff, anyone have cliff notes? did the guy get his 47 grand back?

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She did not get her money back and that was around 300 posts ago. Why this is on the front page every day IDN.

[BurnleyMik]

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She did not get her money back and that was around 300 posts ago. Why this is on the front page every day IDN.

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This subject is of a lot of interest to anyone who has funds in accounts at Full Tilt. For obvious reasons.

[indianaV8]

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It was a hot female bot not a guy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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[indianaV8]

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She did not get her money back and that was around 300 posts ago. Why this is on the front page every day IDN.

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This subject is of a lot of interest to anyone who has funds in accounts at Full Tilt. For obvious reasons.

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Especially if somone has funds in several accounts on full tilt, it's even more interesting.

[PoorLawyer]

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An attorney would be useless here. Full Tilt is not located in the US.

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This is sad but QFT. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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wrong.

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How am I wrong?

Of the countless disputes between players and online poker sites, how many have ever resulted in attorneys recovering the seized money? The answer to that would be ZERO.

I don't know what jurisdiction Full Tilt exists in, but my guess is that it would be extremely difficult -- if not impossible -- to successfully take them to court and win a judgment against them.

Remember, they are in control of all the evidence. Even if Sillysal successfully gets them dragged into some foreign courtroom, they just need to pull out some convincing, official-looking evidence of botting and she's done for. Most poker sites exist in very online gambling friendly environments. The hurdles one would have to jump in order to get a successful civil judgment against Full Tilt would be insurmountable -- especially when you're just a single individual accused of a form of cheating.

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Damn all my years of law school and practicing wasted.

Or maybe you are just making all of that up based on no knowledge or experience....

1. Do you know everyone who has sued a poker site? Otherwise, what is your ZERO figure based on?
2. Are you a lawyer or do you just play one on TV? Have you ever heard of long arm jurisdiction? A default judgment? that most countries enforce foreign judgments?

For most people it is not worth paying an attorney to do all of the work, but that doesn't mean it could not be done. There are channels whereby you could sue and collect from most corporations in the world.

The main obstacle is whether a court would consider online gambling legal in your jurisdiction.

[tetrisworlds]

f full tilt i hate full tilt poker they cheat so much f them take them too court dude

[BiggieFats]

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f full tilt i hate full tilt poker they cheat so much f them take them too court dude

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Run on sentences FTW!

[carlgraham]

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Damn all my years of law school and practicing wasted.

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Not necessarily - perhaps you could apply what you learned in 1L Legal Research & Writing to come up with some authority for your apparent position that offshore casinos can be successfully sued in U.S. courts by individuals?

It's easy to attack a poster who claims that the chances of success are nil, but I've personally never heard of any case where a person with money seized has sued & recovered the seized funds - neither has the person you replied to. But rather than attack him on the grounds that you're a lawyer (not alone, by the way - lots of attorneys post here), come up with proof that he's wrong - it ought to be easy to do, if true.

Why no success? I don't know - it could be no one's sued, it could be they lost on the merits, or it could be that they won, but recovered nothing. At any rate, if he's wrong, prove it. It's easy to prove if there is a case, but how could he prove there isn't, except by saying he's not aware of one?

I would like to believe that we could sue offshore casinos, and have a meaningful chance of recovery. Perhaps the Bodog patent case points the way to forcing them into our courts? But my wishful thinking for accountable casinos won't make it so.

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Or maybe you are just making all of that up based on no knowledge or experience....

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That's an unnecessary low blow. I'll take a stab at answering your questions to him:

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1. Do you know everyone who has sued a poker site? Otherwise, what is your ZERO figure based on?

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a. Like many of us, maybe he keeps up with poker news - both on these forums and elsewhere. I generally am aware when gambling hits the news, particularly in the courts, be it local grannies being busted for running a weekly bingo game, people challenging the UIGEA, Jamie Gold's case, or the Absolute Poker scandal.

b. The lack of any reported case in the usual gambling news areas is not conclusive, but since they report on a host of other seemingly minor gambling news items, including litigation, it does suggest there's nothing else out there.

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2. Are you a lawyer or do you just play one on TV?

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Another unnecessarily low blow.

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Have you ever heard of long arm jurisdiction? A default judgment? that most countries enforce foreign judgments?

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How about the choice of forum clause? Para. 11 of the FTP EULA states: "The Agreement and any matters relating hereto shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with the laws of Alderney. Each party irrevocably agrees that the relevant courts of Alderney shall have exclusive jurisdiction in relation to any claim, dispute or difference concerning the Agreement and any matter arising therefrom and irrevocably waives any right that it may have to object to an action being brought in those courts, or to claim that the action has been brought in an inconvenient forum, or that those courts do not have jurisdiction."

I've never heard of Alderney (according to Wikipedia, it's a Channel Island), but it seems pretty clear to me - by playing on FTP, you agree that actions will be brought in that jurisdiction, not in the U.S.

But, assuming you could even overcome that provision, get service of process, and proceed in U.S. Courts - how would you collect on any judgment? You assert that most countries enforce judgments, but can you name the countries with which we have treaties re: the enforcement of foreign judgments? (Last I heard, it was zero).

Does Alderney enforce U.S. judgments, or would the local courts there take umbrage at an American bypassing them by suing one of their own in U.S. Courts, and obtaining a judgment in violation of the choice of forum clause?

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For most people it is not worth paying an attorney to do all of the work,

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Agreed. Regardless of legal implications, there's nowhere near enough money in most people's situations to justify throwing good money after bad trying to sue, then collect.

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But that doesn't mean it could not be done. There are channels whereby you could sue and collect from most corporations in the world.

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Instead of tearing this guy down, how about being productive, and using your superior legal skills to outline the process under which you think an American could learn who to sue, file suit, overcome the choice of forum clause in the EULA, then, assuming prevailing on the merits, recover in Alderney?

Cheers, Carl.