30/60 Limit Game in Toronto with experienced 50/100+ players 4handed

[Seb85]

First post here, hopefully many more to come once I get to know you guys. The setting is a 4handed 30/60 Limit game, highest one can find in a Toronto casino excpt for 50/100 once a week. Most of us have played in higher limits when available, including one guy who makes his living off of 100/200 games in LA and was just back in town visiting.

So to set the scene, UTG is a strong online and live limit player probably better than me, at the very least break even, we can sense eachother when making moves but he has the best of me in this session. Button is probably the strongest player at the table, 30/60 is low stakes for him but he has been playing a strong game, not just messing around. I'm in SB and the BB is a solid ring game player but too passive for SH. I should also mention I am the only one down at the table rightnow, suffered a few beats so I could be seen as tilting.

UTG folds, Button raises, I 3bet from SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], BB cold calls, button calls.

Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check, BB checks Button bets, I raise, BB cold calls, Button calls.

I put the BB on a draw, he was passive but would have put in a bet or raise if he had a 7. The button I had no read on all night.

The turn is a blank deuce, i think the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] -- What do I do here?

My friend who we always analyze hands together suggested that I check-call the turn, possbly throw in a check-raise on a brick river.


I bet the turn, BB calls, Button raises - I call, BB Calls. River is a 9 (dont remember suit but non-spade), I check BB checks, button bets, I call BB folds A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] -- Button shows Q7off


My question is, disregarding the result, is there anywhere I could have folded the hand, given that it is a 4handed game, or could I have saved any bets by checking the turn?



Thanks for any advice, and many more hand analyses to come in the future.

[teddyFBI]

Welcome to the forums.

First off, what u and ur friend discussed is silly. CR a brick river!?? Why you trying to be so tricky? You played the hand fine, just got cold-decked. You're not folding that hand 4-handed on any street. I think you need to lead the flop, though. Don't altogether mind the CR, though, as long as you lead out on the turn, which you did.

Sounds like you need to practice some game selection too - from your descriptions, sounds like you were the "fish" at the table.

[dday2121]

I agree that the CR on the flop completely exposes your strength here, but I'm not sure that leading out in this situation is a slam dunk either (although probably the right play). the CR does lessen drawing value for the passive player (unlikely he calls with overs or has a piece of the flop), whereas a lead out potentially caps the betting on the flop and leaves our hero in a bigger predicament out of turn on the turn. My thinking is this: if you're the villain here and it goes bet, call in front of you, you may as well jam the pot on the flop - but if hero comes out and announces he has a big pair or big draw with a CR (and villain has the luxury of position and can reasonably put BB on draw and hero on pair), you hero is firing on the turn, and you can trap 2 players for an extra BB here (so you benefit by slowing it down with almost certainly the nuts). My question is, how do you maximize this hand if you're the villain and do you think he played it perfectly?

Also, In the hero's defense, he was coolered here and the BB seems like the fish at the table in a short game (calling 4 small bets cold before the turn with hand that derives most of its value as a drawing hand given the action in front of him). Given your descriptions, EV should be slightly positive until BB's chips run out...after that, stand up.

[brettbrettr]

Given the way it was played is 3 betting the turn nuts?

[vmacosta]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the way it was played is 3 betting the turn nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is oop and handreading suggests he's probably behind villain's range. Seems like a straightforward calldown.

Flop c/r is bad cuz it polarizes your range too far towards {big pairs/monster draws} too fast imo. It should take them on average 2 BB to figure that out otherwise (bet all streets, 3b flop raise, 3b turn, etc.).

[stinkypete]

fold preflop. and by preflop i mean before you sit in this game.

[Victor]

i would lead the flop, hoping that bb raises his mid pair so i can 3bet.

i also wouldnt sit in this game.

[MaverickUSC]

game selection.

[Patriks]

raising q7o in on the button in a raked game is a leak. exploit him...

[Gnome XXL]

By Toronto casino, do you mean Blue Heron?