Best line to take here?

[Fiksdal]

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Doesn't anyone think that the turn bet is way too small given the pot size and remaining stacks?

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Personally I'd push and it matters because it's a huge tell to bet 1/2 your remaining stack w/out pushing

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FYP

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Yeah thanks, when I think about it it does matter, changed my mind on that one.

Preflop btw: I think this is bad, unless the table has been passive, in which case I think it's ok.

BakingAce: I understand all your thoughts, and they are certianly not unreasonable, but allow me to elaborate on my opinions:
Is the argument for not "c-betting" the flop that your opponents won't be paying attention to you anyway? Some of them are probably watching TV or browsing websites while playing or something, but really, you still have to think about how the table sees you.

The biggest reason for betting, though, is that you were the preflop raiser, and villain could get suspicious if you just check in front on the flop HU. A bet looks a lot more like a standard cbet, and much more likely to get floated or pushed over. And also, villain might not be able to lay down 77-TT, so let's just bet and let him think we are cbetting with overcards.

This together with disguising your cbets later makes this flop an easy lead IMO.

[Bakes]

if we bet 3k on the flop, we have like 6500 left, if he pushes then we are getting like 2-1. From his perspective, we would never lay down any sort of reasonable hand so it doesn't make sense for him to bluff here.

If we check the flop, we can get a bet out of missed overcards hands that want to stab at the pot, and almost all the pairs are betting here to protect from AK.

Also, if our opponent checks through like 99 or 77 here, they wont fold it for just one bet on the turn and by the time we get to the river their pretty pot committed.

Again, I wouldn't cbet with AK here because its just a bluff to fold out 99 and 77-. I'd much rather check it to c/r all in.

[AceLuby]

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if we bet 3k on the flop, we have like 6500 left, if he pushes then we are getting like 2-1. From his perspective, we would never lay down any sort of reasonable hand so it doesn't make sense for him to bluff here.

If we check the flop, we can get a bet out of missed overcards hands that want to stab at the pot, and almost all the pairs are betting here to protect from AK.

Also, if our opponent checks through like 99 or 77 here, they wont fold it for just one bet on the turn and by the time we get to the river their pretty pot committed.

Again, I wouldn't cbet with AK here because its just a bluff to fold out 99 and 77-. I'd much rather check it to c/r all in.

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Then why aren't we suggesting c/r'ing AI?

[dneedle1]

A question to those advocating betting out on the flop. The Villian is just about certain to be about 8% likely to win (any pocket pair except 88 or 10 10, not counting pairs with runner runner straight draws) or even less for unpaired cards (in need of a runner runner straight or flush). It seems to me that betting out the flop maximizes the chance of the one intolerable result-- the villain folding-- which is a disaster. Thoughts please?

[AceLuby]

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A question to those advocating betting out on the flop. The Villian is just about certain to be about 8% likely to win (higher pocket pair) or even less (in need of a runner runner straight or flush). It seems to me that betting out the flop maximizes the chance of the one intolerable result-- the villain folding-- which is a disaster. Thoughts please?

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The point, IMO, is that if we c-bet here and he folds no one knows that we had a good hand and we can keep c-betting whether or not we hit. If we c-bet and he calls we can check the turn and try to induce a bluff, or we can open push. If we are raised we can 3-bet push w/ what is most likely the best hand. If we showdown w/out c-betting when we do it often our c-bets are more likely to have more resistance and not c-betting will set off alarms in our opponents heads which means we will have to show down good hands going forward. Just my .02, but I'm c/r the flop AI so 'he puts me on a whiffed AK' + I don't mind taking the pot right there if he folds.

[Fiksdal]

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A question to those advocating betting out on the flop. The Villian is just about certain to be about 8% likely to win (higher pocket pair) or even less (in need of a runner runner straight or flush). It seems to me that betting out the flop maximizes the chance of the one intolerable result-- the villain folding-- which is a disaster. Thoughts please?

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If villain has a middle pocket pair he probably won't fold flop.

If you fail to c-bet, it should get him suspicious, and he will probably check behind. The question is if it is likely to extract chips from him on the turn.

I started out saying checking flop is horrible. That was an exagertation. Given stack sizes and everything, it's an allright play. This is all to the reasonable posts of BakingAce.

Anyhow, my preference is still leading.

[sapsuckah]

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The point, IMO, is that if we c-bet here and he folds no one knows that we had a good hand and we can keep c-betting whether or not we hit. If we c-bet and he calls we can check the turn and try to induce a bluff, or we can open push. If we are raised we can 3-bet push w/ what is most likely the best hand. If we showdown w/out c-betting when we do it often our c-bets are more likely to have more resistance and not c-betting will set off alarms in our opponents heads which means we will have to show down good hands going forward. Just my .02, but I'm c/r the flop AI so 'he puts me on a whiffed AK' + I don't mind taking the pot right there if he folds.

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I agree (as usual) with Ace. I lead the flop for the reasons he said. I also love the bet-check-bet line in spots like this: Bet the flop and make it look as "normal" a c-bet as you can. If he calls, check the turn (and call if he bets). Then push the river, repping a last-ditch effort to take the pot after your presumed draw failed.

Now, if the turn brings a scary card (something that could help a draw), I'll revise my thinking and bet big or push the turn rather than checking.

Matt

[jedi]

Noob answer:

I bet the flop. As others said, you were the PFR (which I'm not a fan of either, but never mind that). You're expected to bet. The board is fairly coordinated with the middling cards. He could easily have a draw of any sort. If you bet here, you give him the chance to semi-bluff raise you, trying to push you off of AK. If you check here, he will bet, but he's not putting more money in this pot when you called the flop unless he has a legit hand.

There are enough scare cards that hit on the turn that might destroy your action. I say bet this flop, and hope to get it all-in.