Can I get a count or not?

redfisher · #1 07-06-2007, 01:59 AM

I am considering a bet in a NL game. Am I entitled to an opponent's chip count or not? This comes up because Binion's LV definitely has a chips are visual only rule. You can ask for a bill count (cash plays), but have to figure out the chip count on your own. Is this standard?

RR · #2 07-06-2007, 02:03 AM

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I am considering a bet in a NL game. Am I entitled to an opponent's chip count or not? This comes up because Binion's LV definitely has a chips are visual only rule. You can ask for a bill count (cash plays), but have to figure out the chip count on your own. Is this standard?

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I would say about 30% of places will not count the chips for you.

RunDownHouse · #3 07-06-2007, 02:17 AM

Randy,

What's the rule on someone misdeclaring their stack when the room refuses to count? What do you think of the rule? It seems like that'd be a heaven for angle shooters.

redfisher · #4 07-06-2007, 03:06 AM

Big issue here. Carol (Carole?) at Binion's claims that hidden chips don't play. What's hidden? In Harrah's NO, most players who don't have a clue put their big chips on the bottom or behind their stacks. Carol says she would rule they don't play since I don't understand the action. I think this is BS and if I ask for a count it should be granted.

FWIW, I was not stuck by the Binion's ruling. A player to my right made the illegal "I put you all-in" bet on the 1 seat. After he was told he couldn't bet the other guy AI, he asked how much 1 seat had left. The 10 seat starts nitty bitching about how he can't do that. All chips are visual at Binion's unless you can convince the floor you couldn't see them. This seems kind of hard to prove when you just lost set over set. I don't see how a count hurts the game.

redfisher · #5 07-06-2007, 03:12 AM

I would have agreed until after I heard numerous "How do you have left?" requests. Player moves his hands aside, dealer does nothing. If there aren't hidden chips, it's no problem. I see no evidence that you can get an accurate count anywhere in Vegas as a standard procedure. It may be that since most Vegas rooms only allow correct chips or $100s to play that it's not a big deal, but I'm in local rooms that typically have $1, $5, $25, $100, and even $500 chips in play. I want to know the count before I push.

youtalkfunny · #6 07-06-2007, 03:21 AM

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After he was told he couldn't bet the other guy AI, he asked how much 1 seat had left. The 10 seat starts nitty bitching about how he can't do that.

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But you CAN do that! You can ask your opponent to count them down for you. Just be aware, that he is under no obligation to do so. But he might, if you ask nicely. And if he complies, then you can ask the nit in Seat Ten, nicely, to FO.

If you think you need to get a count every time you're involved in a hand, then you might want to stick with internet poker. In real life, we're not going to stop the game every time you ask for a count.

If your opponent has the chips laid out for you to get a ballpark, then that's the most you can demand of him.

psandman · #7 07-06-2007, 03:45 AM

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I would have agreed until after I heard numerous "How do you have left?" requests. Player moves his hands aside, dealer does nothing. If there aren't hidden chips, it's no problem. I see no evidence that you can get an accurate count anywhere in Vegas as a standard procedure. It may be that since most Vegas rooms only allow correct chips or $100s to play that it's not a big deal, but I'm in local rooms that typically have $1, $5, $25, $100, and even $500 chips in play. I want to know the count before I push.

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In my room you can get a count, but if you ask that question and your opponent lifts his hands and you seem satisfied with getting the visual am certainly not going to count down the stack for you or ask the player to do so. If you indicate at that point you want an actual count you will get it (unless its obvious that you covered).

RR · #8 07-06-2007, 11:57 AM

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Randy,

What's the rule on someone misdeclaring their stack when the room refuses to count? What do you think of the rule? It seems like that'd be a heaven for angle shooters.

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Well I have never worked in a room where you aren't entitled to a count. I would think that if someone lies about the size of their stack (substantially, someone saying "I am $4k deep" when they are actually $4100 deep isn't a problem) it would fall under the sam category of misunderstanding the size of the wager. In these rooms higher denomination chips being plainly visible is more stictly enforced.

SellingtheDrama · #9 07-06-2007, 12:43 PM

Where I play, they won't count non-bet chips (your stack), but they'll ask you to make them clearly visible - most players will count down or at least clean their stacks into 20s at that point. I cannot recall ever seeing a dealer count down chips that weren't a bet.

Personally I don't sweat exact counts until post-hand, rounding is usually sufficient. If you have 1600 or 1620 doesn't matter to me, my math skills won't differentiate. And anytime I give a ballpark count I emphasize 'about' or phrase it as "1600 and change".