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#21
11-23-2007, 02:38 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] PokerBob-- Anyone who won't fold any pair here will have all sorts of no-pair hands here. Why does he need to put us on an 8 to fold 33 or K5 or 62s, anyway? After all, he's either a terrible hand-range analyst, or he knows that it's terrible to have a narrow betting range in Hero's spot. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] in my experience, guys who flop pairs don't fold them. [/ QUOTE ] PokerBob-- (A) I think that statement is nowhere near true. (B) As I've said a few times, he doesn't need to fold a pair for the bet to be correct. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] ok. [/ QUOTE ] PokerBob-- Also, let me say again that an excellent player literally thought that any suggestion of checking in this spot had to be a joke. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes? 
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#22
11-23-2007, 02:45 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
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ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes? [/ QUOTE ] PB-- I don't know. It's strongly opponent-dependent. I'll ask him when I get a chance. Certainly a turn bet is better than a check whether or not you plan to bluff the river. --Nate
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#23
11-23-2007, 02:51 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes? [/ QUOTE ] PB-- I don't know. It's strongly opponent-dependent. I'll ask him when I get a chance. Certainly a turn bet is better than a check whether or not you plan to bluff the river. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] well, i think you and your buddy are dead wrong, so let's just leave it at that. fwiw, if he is betting the turn, checking the river would be horrible.
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#24
11-23-2007, 02:56 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] ok. is he barreling the river as well when a red 2 comes? [/ QUOTE ] PB-- I don't know. It's strongly opponent-dependent. I'll ask him when I get a chance. Certainly a turn bet is better than a check whether or not you plan to bluff the river. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] well, i think you and your buddy are dead wrong, so let's just leave it at that. fwiw, if he is betting the turn, checking the river would be horrible. [/ QUOTE ] PB-- Fair enough. By the way, multi-ninja-editing aside, you've been very polite in this thread, so thanks. I hope I've been equally so. --Nate
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#25
11-23-2007, 02:58 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
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But by checking the turn we lose value vs. b) and d) and when he donks the river do we call with A high? The 3 bet is obviously horrible but I bet the turn all day long w the nut draw 2 overs and gs. [/ QUOTE ] which bet has more value for us: the bet that we place and gets called on the turn, or the bet that we put in on the river when we call after the turn checks through?
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#26
11-23-2007, 04:53 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
I just saw this thread. I bet the turn, call the c/r, and river a flush.
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#28
11-23-2007, 05:13 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
betting the turn here is fine i dont know wtf we would check for when we can actually get a better hand to fold somewhat realistically and we have like 12ish basically nut outs if not. 3 betting after getting c/r however is of course horrendous bc you have just cost yourself 4 bets pretty much guaranteed to draw to a flush that should have cost 1-2 bets to draw to.
if villain is never folding a pair then fine check turn but honestly this is like one of the few spots in lhe where people fold a pair somewhat often so we may as well take advantage of it. also in live games we are getting c/r by draw here like never. *edit* if we check turn then calling a river bet is horrible. the pot is tiny and we have to give him credit for peeling the flop with no pair no draw on a coordinated board. i also dont understand pbob's "if you bet turn you have to bet river". most people that stubbornly call turn again with 1 pair no redraw will insta payoff on river. some will fold but they are fairly rare. if they had worse flush draw and hit a pair that they might have folded then oh well.
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#29
11-23-2007, 05:15 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] PokerBob-- Anyone who won't fold any pair here will have all sorts of no-pair hands here. Why does he need to put us on an 8 to fold 33 or K5 or 62s, anyway? After all, he's either a terrible hand-range analyst, or he knows that it's terrible to have a narrow betting range in Hero's spot. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] in my experience, guys who flop pairs don't fold them. [/ QUOTE ] PokerBob-- (A) I think that statement is nowhere near true. (B) As I've said a few times, he doesn't need to fold a pair for the bet to be correct. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] ok. [/ QUOTE ] PokerBob-- Also, let me say again that an excellent player literally thought that any suggestion of checking in this spot had to be a joke. --Nate [/ QUOTE ] an excellent player i spoke to said he bets this turn just about never. even spewmaster schneids said he only bets it 33-50% of the time. your buddy clearly needs to reevaluate a few things.
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#30
11-23-2007, 05:26 AM
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Re: 30/60 turn spot
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not sure what is worse, betting the turn or 3-betting the turn. both actions were horrible. [/ QUOTE ] um... did the OP change the hand? It was a rainbow flop when I made my post.
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