Pokerstars $27 9-handed: strange BB call by a regular

[SongheJe]

So.. what should do ? Never push a regular ?
I'm living a semi-tilt period because my winning on allins are really below expectation, but I was able not to impact the game (not a rigged-rigged crying but a serious post-game analysis with a software to analize EV from hand history and effective results)
So it seems I can't deal against 'bad play'... another example:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t1725)
UTG (t2240)
MP (t3545)
Button (t4770)
Hero (t1220)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1220</font>, BB calls t1020.

Flop: (t2440) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Turn: (t2440) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t2440) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t2440

It's another winning regular with Q5s on the BB... Of course they were diamonds..
I really should do calls like that to survive ?

[eurythmech]

Spite calling is so much fun.

[pifhluk]

He is making the same mistake that I make constantly. Thinking that the regulars actually know what they are doing but most do not push any 2. If you were 100% here then J7S is a good call.

[JacJacAtk]

[ QUOTE ]
So.. what should do ? Never push a regular ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Shove at least the right amount for when they call perfectly (well, or for the known tendencies of that particular regular if you play with them that much), and move on with life when you get called and lose.

As long as you shove correctly, the times you're losing $EV to a "bad" call aren't that significant. If the opponents are good they'll adjust at some point and if they keep calling too loose after some period of time you'll have to adjust. Metagame chicken, I suppose, but it's not nearly a big enough factor in your overall results to be worth getting too worked up about (and you could always do a little table selection if a particular player is a problem).

[HajiShirazu]

No the key is to be the guy with the J7s and call when they shove into you because THE WORST HAND WINS EVERY TIME ON STARS LDO

[TheActionKid]

the push from sb to bb is correct. the call with j7 is incorrect. next case...

-TheActionKid

[AMT]

hes dumb or likes to spite call are the only explanations i can think of

[JacJacAtk]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1220</font>, BB calls t1020.

[/ QUOTE ]

The J7s call is perfectly fine if OP is pushing ATC (which itself is "incorrect"). Given the second hand posted by OP (quoted), it's not clear that villain is necessarily wrong in assuming OP is shoving too wide.

Likewise, shoving K5o is wrong if OP thinks villain thinks OP is shoving ATC and calls appropriately.

Not shoving or calling at the equilibrium isn't inherently wrong, it's just exploitable. Conversely straying from equilibrium doesn't necessarily reduce $EV (in fact, it often increases it when your opponents don't play unexploitably).

[Kevin8423]

[ QUOTE ]
He is making the same mistake that I make constantly. Thinking that the regulars actually know what they are doing but most do not push any 2. If you were 100% here then J7S is a good call.

[/ QUOTE ]

While it is +EV to some extent I really don't think that it is a good call. It is 5 handed, he isn't in bad shape compared to the other stacks and he could find a better spot than this guaranteed. J7s is basically never far ahead unless he luckboxes and you happen to have some worse Jx or 7x and he is essentially playing for his stack.

IMO this call is horrible regardless of who is shoving.

[JacJacAtk]

It's +0.6% vs ATC, which isn't nothing. Depending on the dynamics of this particular game, I can see taking the risk. It's also worth noting that big stack is in villain's BB.