(2/4) Stealing with JTs

[EvenFlow]

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Anyone saying JTs shouldn't be raised UTG when not in a very loose game?

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6-handed I would fold UTG preflop if I'm running bad.

[W. Deranged]

1. People need to stop overusing the free card play, particularly in blind steal situations and in shorthanded games. It just doesn't work that often. When we get three-bet and bet into on the turn, we cost ourselves twice and much as we would have saved had our play worked.

2. I often like the delayed river raise with top pair in situations like this. Opponents:

a. Hate to fold anything to one more bet on the river if raised.
b. Don't like to three-bet anything but the nuts on the river.
c. Like to keep bluffing in heads-up situations.

All these things make me want to wait until the river with hands that are strong but which I don't want to get reraised with.

[restless]

so I think we've established that preflop is good, and flop is bad. I now I'm bound to make this flop mistake over again, but I'll try to maintain discipline.

On the turn, would anyone like to help me quantify the relative merits of raising the turn or waiting for the river. First, what are my possible lines here?

a) raise-fold turn, followed by bet-folding the turn on a good card? call a donk on the river if a scarecard hits?

b) call turn and raise-fold good rivers. call if a scarecard hits. if opp. checks I feel like I have to bet a safe card.

safe cards = non-hearts, no A,2,3,4,5,6 ??

Any other alternative line you would suggest?

BTW: I'm amazed that I'm actually even typing raise-fold in a hand with TP against an unknown. Isn't that overly FPS ???

[Dagger78]

I'm generally raising JTs in the CO first in. Against typical opponents it's a straight fold on the flop for me.

[Peter Harris]

good work, PF fine. flop is a peel and fold UI situation. I usually pop the turn in the heat of battle but a river raise is better, you're a lot less likely to be 3bet on the river (see Theory of Poker for more on this), plus you usually get the "wtf call" (did Guru coin this or just bring it to my attention).

nh.

[ninenine_zoe]

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I can't remember the last time I folded JTs preflop UTG

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[Dagger78]

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1. People need to stop overusing the free card play, particularly in blind steal situations and in shorthanded games. It just doesn't work that often. When we get three-bet and bet into on the turn, we cost ourselves twice and much as we would have saved had our play worked.

2. I often like the delayed river raise with top pair in situations like this. Opponents:

a. Hate to fold anything to one more bet on the river if raised.
b. Don't like to three-bet anything but the nuts on the river.
c. Like to keep bluffing in heads-up situations.

All these things make me want to wait until the river with hands that are strong but which I don't want to get reraised with.

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I wish I could just repost this as if it was my post, since this is really a great reply.

Thanks for the insight as usual W.

[restless]

thanx for the replies guys. Villain gave me the WTF call with 92h.