Dealer gives back "mucked" cards

[Eponymous]

Yesterday in a 10/20 LHE game at Borgata, a guy posts in middle position. Action comes around to him and he tosses his cards to the dealer, apparently forgeting he posted. Dealer slides them back towards him, saying, "You're already in, no need to fold." No one really says anything as the play continues 4 handed. The guy that almost folded ends up winning a pretty big pot with a flush, and the player with the 2nd best hand gets really upset, berating the dealer for giving the guy his cards back. Dealer says since they didn't touch the muck (there really was no muck at that point), they were still live since there was no more money for him to call.

After a lot of arguing, they never did end up calling the floor, but the 2nd best hand wanted the dealer to admit he was wrong or give him $100. Later discussion at the table pretty much agreed that the player shouldn't have gotten his cards back. What's the right call? There was no doubt that the player meant to muck his hand (even he didn't dispute this). On-line sites usually say something like, "Checking is free. Do you still want to fold?" Should live play be different?

My thinking on this is that dealer should have considered his cards folded, but after play continued, the other players can't complain only at the conclusion of the hand. They would have gladly taken his money if one of them won the pot. They can't wait to find out they lose then want something done about it. That would give them something of a freeroll regarding that player's bets, and it's a bit of an angle shoot. They should speak up at the beginning, or live with the result.

[psandman]

I generally look at a number of factors when this happens. If the player just slides the cards out a little bit, and say your in. If they toss all the way in I'll usually take them in. But if its a new player I'm more likely to give them back, if its an experienced player or a regular I'm more likely to keep them. I'd be less likely to give them back in a $10/$20 game then a $2/$4 game.

In any event if a player is going to object object immediatley

[allbad]

[ QUOTE ]
In any event if a player is going to object object immediatley

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This was my first thought. Don't wait for 3 more betting rounds to make your objection. What if the person who should've been out had lost and said "no, I really did want to muck pre-flop... can I have my bets back please?"

[Dynasty]

Pushing the cards back is standard.

[SEAN.R.R]

It is pretty standard and anybody who objects needs to do so immeadiately not after he loses a big pot.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
anybody who objects needs to do so immeadiately not after he loses a big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

So what you're saying is that one of the other players watched the mucked cards be passed back to the player, and didn't say anything, then complained only after losing a big pot.

What the dealer did is a judgment call. What the angle-shooting nit did is worthy of several kicks to the nuts.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing the cards back is standard.

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Yep.

Funny how the guy who lost doesn't complain for 3 streets until he loses. He sure didn't mind the guy putting all the extra money in during the hand. Effing Moron.

b

[bav]

People do this ALL the time in the smallish daily tourneys in Vegas 'cause you get a lot of relative n00bs. Giving 'em back the cards is totally standard in that environment. In a mid-limit cash game, I gots no problems either way, but I'd kinda like it to be a casino standard, not a dealer-enforced thing. The dealer shouldn't get to decide he's going to give the cards back to a great George while taking 'em from a stiff.

[killsadie]

where i play most dealers wouldnt even let you fold, standard.

[roscoj_ire]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be less likely to give them back in a $10/$20 game then a $2/$4 game.

[/ QUOTE ]
That has zero relevance here, it dosn't matter what level it's at? $100 to one guy could be like a $1000 to another!