How to play double gutter in 3bet pot?

BGnight · #1 10-31-2007, 06:13 PM

Villian is an 19/14 reg. His name is Jschlach. I 3bet him earlier when I was button and he 4bet me and I folded, so he may think I can't be 3betting too light here.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($207.05)
SB ($223)
BB ($207)
UTG ($344.70)
MP ($265.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $8, Hero raises to $24, 2 folds, MP calls $16.

Flop: ($51) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($51) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $32, Hero raises to $183.05

manupod · #2 10-31-2007, 06:18 PM

no, bet/call flop

BGnight · #3 10-31-2007, 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no, bet/call flop

[/ QUOTE ]

So make a continuation bet of 2/3-full pot and call a push w/ 8 outs??????????
mmmmm, k.

Kazuya · #4 10-31-2007, 06:19 PM

lol u played this so bad for a 3-bet pot,,
i'll give you a hint, if you play THAT bad in raised pots (with hands like this) save yourself some money and dont 3bet 78o there..

Given your flop line, just call the turn.

Daddy Warbucks · #5 10-31-2007, 06:19 PM

You have to bet the flop. If you were 3 betting light and missed, you'd probably fire right? You have initiative,fold equity AND outs, you should be taking advantage of this.

As it stands, getting most of the money in on the turn is pretty bad. Your odds are much slimmer, and you could be drawing dead.

Ajahn · #6 10-31-2007, 06:20 PM

Bet/fold flop, pray for a free card, perhaps shove turn on an A or K.

BGnight · #7 10-31-2007, 06:23 PM

If I am drawing dead on the turn then that means I woulda just got blown off my draw on the flop. At least this way I trap bluff $$ and still have 8 outs.

I'd check this flop 50% of time w/ KK,AA fwiw. It's dry enough to do this safely imo.

BGnight · #8 10-31-2007, 06:28 PM

I'm not saying cbetting is bad here by any means. If he just calls I'm gonna get a free river card a majority of the time. I'm just wondering if this line is equally as good.

I kinda figure both ways I'm seeing two cards. Cbetting can get c/raised and blown off my draw however and that sux. When I check the flop most villians are gonna fire w/ air on the turn more than a made hand imo. And I get extra $$ vs bluffs and still have FE vs TT, 88, diamond draws, etc......imo,ldo,obv

thac · #9 10-31-2007, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying cbetting is bad here by any means. If he just calls I'm gonna get a free river card a majority of the time. I'm just wondering if this line is equally as good.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're repping a REALLY narrow range. Like, JJ, KK, AA. When you cbet the flop your range is like 90% of what you 3-bet. I'd cbet as a default because I bet with most pairs.

I really don't like the shove over the turn bet either, you either have nuts or air, and I doubt he folds something as weak as TT here.

Daddy Warbucks · #10 10-31-2007, 06:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I am drawing dead on the turn then that means I woulda just got blown off my draw on the flop. At least this way I trap bluff $$ and still have 8 outs.

I'd check this flop 50% of time w/ KK,AA fwiw. It's dry enough to do this safely imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you don't have AA or KK, and giving a free card can let AK/AQ catch up, and don't fold out TT and maybe QQ. You also assume top set will raise you on the flop, when i think its close to equally likely he'll flat call to trap.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say "trap bluff $$", but you're betting now with only one card to come, instead of 2, and also remove the ability for you to check behind the turn to take a free card.