KK turn and river decisions

[Sm@rties]

FWIW I folded on the river but of course got to see the SBs hand since CO was all-in. It turned out that SB had 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I was just sick to my stomach for folding.

[the machine]

as played just call.

id probably raise the turn here.

[b2l_cricket]

Maybe i am just bad but i do not understand how a turn raise is the best play. I would like if someone could explain. These are my thoughts.

I guess it makes the hand easier because he will just fold a lot. But i can not see how this is better for value than calling turn calling river. I think he is folding or shoving almost always with a board like this. He doesn't have many worse overpairs because he did not 3bet pre. I can't see a hand we beat just calling. We are putting in almost as much money raising as calling on the river, and i think it is much more likely he will bluff a missed draw or value bet worse or something than give you value for a turn raise.

[b2l_cricket]

Sorry for shameless bump but i would really like to see a thoughtful reply to my last post. This may be an issue with my game

[holdme]

grunch

i like your line. as played, instasnapcall river

[Sm@rties]

I see you point b2l_cricket. I do not like raising turn either (especially not when the stacks are semi-deep) since I think he would just fold the hands that I beat and shove with sets. The big question is what he would do with draws now we have reached the turn. With for instance 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would he shove or call? If he would shove then we have to ask ourselves what is the weakest draw he would likely shove? (Bonus question to all readers that made it this far: What is the weakest draw you would shove with on the turn if you were the SB?) I guess you have to know your opponent and be able to give a good estimate to which draws he would shove in order to make that raise on the turn.

In retrospect it is clear that in this particular instance calling turn and river is highly likely the play with best value. Since I don't see him shoving to a raise on the turn or calling turn raise and bluffing river. And the next time I see this weird line of check-calling flop and betting river I would very likely go for the call-call option.

[gergong2]

i make it 4$ preflop, bet 12$ on flop,its a 4- way pot and a very drawheavy flop.Raise the turn to 70$.
as played i call the river bet.