Call river bet with second pair?

[Fiksdal]

Live $50 tourney from yesterday in an Oslo poker club, 50 minutes in.

My image is LAG, and probably semi-maniac. I have done some 3-betting of other agressive players while in position. Also opened a bit from late/mid position. Limped some too, even open limped. I've also been betting frequently in position. Yet nobody has really stood up.

The SB is pretty bad, tight passive.

BB isn't as bad as the SB, but still a fish. He hasn't really been involved too much, but I remember some hands that he played badly.

On my last button I opened raised, and got the blinds. Did the same thing 2 orbits ago. I have also been stealing blinds from other positions.

Big blind is t200, Ante 25, 8 handed

Hero: t16 500
SB: t19 000
BB: t9 000

Preflop: I am Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
5 folds, <font color="red">I raise to t700</font>, SB folds, BB calls t500.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (pot is t1700, 2 players)
BB checks, I check behind fairly quickly

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot is t1700, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">I bet t1250</font>, BB calls t1250.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot is t4200, 2 players)
<font color="red">BB bets t3000</font>

I really went into the tank here. Can I call this bet?

[omaha]

I think if bb had the K, he would have cr the flop, but, failing that, bet the turn, which he didnt.

Real questionl, is did he have say 65 clubs or the like?

On a steal?

With your aggro image, your thieving and his previous bad play, I would call.

[TheFoxNL]

hmm he might just have a 6 here or a 7 i would prob just call here
he doesnt have a K
and running into a 6 would suck but still this is a call

[Cornell Fiji]

I call this bet from a good player but I think that it is a fold against a bad player.

This does not make any sense as a blocking bet and bad players can not value bet thin. He might have had a flush draw/straight draw on the turn and has decided to turn it into a bluff but I think that it is more likely that he has a hand like KQ/KJ that was afraid of losing value from you if you had nothing on earlier streets.

There is no way this is A8/A7, those hands check the river. He is either betting A6/KQ/KJ/missed draw. You need to use your live read to determine how often this was a missed draw and how often it is a marginal made hand but I am folding this pretty often against a bad live player.

[Cablelessray]

easy fold in this spot...

i've played a lot of low buy in live tourneys. if you are telling it right, this kind of player betting this line at you either has a 8 with a better kicker, a king with a middle kicker, or a 6. he's not betting that river with a 7 or a bluff.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
easy fold in this spot...

i've played a lot of low buy in live tourneys. if you are telling it right, this kind of player betting this line at you either has a 8 with a better kicker, a king with a middle kicker, or a 6. he's not betting that river with a 7 or a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cable,
I think that you are correct that this is a fold but I disagree that the villain is betting A8 in this spot and we chop with all other 8s (which he is probably not betting either). Just wanted to point out that a better 8 means A8 and A8 only with the board pair on the river

[FineVol]

I see a six in his hand.He was scared of the 2 overs on the flop did not like the 8 so check called and hit his river for trips and betting 3000. to prove it.

[Cablelessray]

sorry, i meant the best 8, as i'm actually assuming the guy's most likely playing A8 or A6

[Spee]

In addition to the 6, opponent could easily have a little pair like 5's or 4's. He pretty much advertised that he didn't care for the flop, although I'd probably bet a pocket pair into that flop.

Given the flop play and turn play I suspect that on the turn the opponent puts Hero on a 4-straight steal, and believes that he holds the best hand on the turn and the river.

What I don't understand is why Hero didn't semibluff the flop when there was a decent shot to take down 1700 chips without a challenge. With Hero's position and the aggro preflop play, checking this flop is weak, I think. The hand just gets harder to play from the flop.

That said, there is a good chance that opponent has a 6, possibly the under pair in the hole. On the other hand, opponent could have caught the flop well with K6 or 76, although his play is not indicative of the 76. I'm stuck between a call and a fold, but would be leaning toward the fold. It would really depend on my feel for this player.

To me this is more an example of how not to take advantage of position and weakish play by the opponent. 1700 was there for the taking without a showdown. Headup if I'm firing away from the button preflop, then I'm firing more bullets on darn near any flop where the opponent checks into me.

If Hero calls and shows the T8 and I as his opponent see this, whether win or lose, then I'm going to be unmercifully aggressive against Hero from here on out. Another reason to take this one down on the flop.

[draw2aflush]

Fold. Even a fish could slow play. It looks like a possible flopped 2 pair. Reasonable to think this player called preflop with 67 and hit bingo and slow played and rivered a monster and hoping you have AK