the "you win" rule

[andyfox]

I rarely see that happen. In the bad old days, players would try to pull the "you win" angle often enough that it made sense for the rule to be in the book. I must have seen it 25 times. I never saw anyone try to claim he folded because his opponent said "you win" when the opponent claimed he did not say it.

[andyfox]

Once, a hundred years ago, I opened the pot in draw poker with pocket kings. An opponent who had previously passed (in draw, a pass is not a fold), called and drew 3. Knowing this opponent, I knew he likely had aces, so I drew one and bet out. He called. I tapped the table, but I didn't really mean "you win," I meant, "Nice call, you very likely win." I tabled my kings and he looked and looked and layed his hand down and he had kings and I won with my kickers.

He protested, the floor was called, and I was awarded the pot. The cardroom (Normandie) did not have the "you win" rule; I likely would have been awarded the pot anyway by this particular floorman, but that's another story.

I've seen players tap the table after they call an opponent who has tabled his hand on the river, and then turn over a winning hand. On occasion it is an actual misread, but more often, it is indeed a slowroll, and an ugly one: a normal slowroll leaves you unsure about whether you have won; this kind, where your opponent taps the table, make you think you have won for sure.

[chucky]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw a situation a few months ago where a guy threw his cards up in the air and said something like “it’s yours, I don’t have anything”. The other player in the pot, a woman on the opposite side of the dealer mucked her hand thinking she had won. She could not see the action clearly around the dealer and thought the other player had folded without calling her river bet, but he had actually called and then tossed his cards up in the air. His cards had landed face up on top of the board, so the floor ruled he had not mucked his hand. The woman had mucked her hand without showing it. The floor said cards speak and only the man showed his cards so he won the pot.

The woman was mad and thought this was some kind of angle. She and another woman proceeded to give the guy a hard time and he left a few hands later, which is too bad because he was a real loose calling stallion, although he was close to busting out anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is horrible yet funny. I thought it would be pretty obvious that someone who throws their cards intentionally in the air has folded. The lesson as always is hold onto your cards until the pot is on its way.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
Once, a hundred years ago, I opened the pot in draw poker with pocket kings. An opponent who had previously passed (in draw, a pass is not a fold), called and drew 3. Knowing this opponent, I knew he likely had aces, so I drew one and bet out. He called. I tapped the table, but I didn't really mean "you win," I meant, "Nice call, you very likely win." I tabled my kings and he looked and looked and layed his hand down and he had kings and I won with my kickers.

He protested, the floor was called, and I was awarded the pot. The cardroom (Normandie) did not have the "you win" rule; I likely would have been awarded the pot anyway by this particular floorman, but that's another story.

I've seen players tap the table after they call an opponent who has tabled his hand on the river, and then turn over a winning hand. On occasion it is an actual misread, but more often, it is indeed a slowroll, and an ugly one: a normal slowroll leaves you unsure about whether you have won; this kind, where your opponent taps the table, make you think you have won for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Today a table tap seems to have many different meanings I see people do it in all different situations and having different apparent meanings that i never assign any meaning to it anymore.

Of course a hundred years ago things were different.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you guys ever used this rule or seen it used?
The rule is:
If it is HU on the river, and one player says "you win" after all action has been completed, the other player can just muck his hand and take the pot with no showdown.

What is the purpose of this rule, other than putting me in a situation where someone will try to stab me in the parking lot?

[/ QUOTE ]
Here is an article that might be applicable here:

http://twoplustwo.com/magazine/issue35/angelo1107.html

If you have a hand, just flip your damn cards over. If you are the mucker variety, then you too someday will muck a winning hand and the floor will rule the pot to villain. And then you'll cry and I'll say I told you so.

[dtf13]

cards speak

[Jimbo]

In a 1/2 game about a week ago: I raised preflop, got one caller, bet out on the flop and turn, he calls both bets (I was in the BB and he limped on the button) Finally I gave up on the river when it read Q T 4 9 K and I had A5 suited in spades. I said you win, couldn't imagine what he could call all my bets with that wouldn't beat A high with no kicker. Just prior to flinging my cards into the air flying towards the muck he tabled J7 of diamonds (one diamond on the whole board, one on the flop) and said "Thought I might make a hand", I just smiled and still folded my hand, first time in my life I have ever intentionally folded a winner but felt obligated to do so. Am 99% sure that in this room if I had shown down I still would have been awarded the pot.

Jimbo

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
over time it started sneaking back in "the rules"; usually via the poker manager via memo or an entry into the floor staff logbook.

[/ QUOTE ]What goes into the floor staff logbook? Surely not all rulings made during a shift. Who reviews the logbook, and for what purpose?

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience comes from Hollywood Park (1996-2000) where I was a floor and The Bike (2001-2005) where I was a nl host/lead prop sort.

Typically the log will have a record of who is barred/unbarred or to be watched closely and changes to policies (either handwritten or pasted in memos). Typical rule changes that might be logged would be similar to the following:

- who gets the odd chip in a new high limit Omaha/8 game (where the players don't like the written rule).

- what happens if a player is unaware of a raise (only puts in a call) and there is subsequent action (this must have changed ten times at Hollywood park).

- "latest and greatest" [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] must move policy.

- new game structures

- clarification (or further foggy notions) regarding problem rulings

As noted this is simply my experience in two clubs.

~ Rick

[RR]

This seems pretty accurate. I would add that where I am now does this by email so the floor staff has to stay current with their work email.

[dalston]

[ QUOTE ]
In a 1/2 game about a week ago: I raised preflop, got one caller, bet out on the flop and turn, he calls both bets (I was in the BB and he limped on the button) Finally I gave up on the river when it read Q T 4 9 K and I had A5 suited in spades. I said you win, couldn't imagine what he could call all my bets with that wouldn't beat A high with no kicker. Just prior to flinging my cards into the air flying towards the muck he tabled J7 of diamonds (one diamond on the whole board, one on the flop) and said "Thought I might make a hand", I just smiled and still folded my hand, first time in my life I have ever intentionally folded a winner but felt obligated to do so. Am 99% sure that in this room if I had shown down I still would have been awarded the pot.

Jimbo

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh. Didn't he have a straight?