two big pots with AQ

[Nezzar]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone like a weak lead in hand 1 to possibly induce a bluff raise? Say somewhere along the lines of 300-400? Plus that small of a bet may well get called by a marginal hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting betsize. I was thinking a turnbet somewhere between halfpot and 3/4, but I like your idea and at the same time its not letting him draw cheaply to a flush.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1 I think you should bet turn. And there are many reasons. Good players will check behind with one spade and bet to protect the pot with a hand that has you beat. The worst hand that will bet the turn is top pair and you fail to build the pot against that hand.
If you checkraise what hand that you beat is going to call you? Bad risk/reward here IMO.

Hand #2 Calling on flop is the only option.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree here 100% regarding hand #1 for not only the reasons given, but also because since you are committing your stack, betting that 3rd spade now is in fact more often likely to elicit a semi-bluff raise allowing you to checkraise allin, whereas a check will most often elicit a check behind. Even though you are out of position, you simply cannot let a 4th spade or straight card or broadway card making him 2 pair, fall cheap.

Hand #2, I agree with smooth calling the raise on the flop. However, if you check a blank on the turn, he will often check behind as well with a worse ace. So after smoothcalling, I would bet out on the turn 2/3 of the pot. If you are raised there as well, then you have to make a decision whether he would do so with a worse hand and act accordingly.

[Nezzar]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree here 100% regarding hand #1 for not only the reasons given, but also because since you are committing your stack, betting that 3rd spade now is in fact more often likely to elicit a semi-bluff raise allowing you to checkraise allin, whereas a check will most often elicit a check behind. Even though you are out of position, you simply cannot let a 4th spade or straight card or broadway card making him 2 pair, fall cheap.

Hand #2, I agree with smooth calling the raise on the flop. However, if you check a blank on the turn, he will often check behind as well with a worse ace. So after smoothcalling, I would bet out on the turn 2/3 of the pot. If you are raised there as well, then you have to make a decision whether he would do so with a worse hand and act accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything. In hand #2 we never fold if he raises our bet on turn. The pot is to big.

Edited: Actually I might check the turn and pott the river. No matter if he bets or checks behind on turn.

[mythrilfox]

I disagree with all this turn bet nonsense. Who bets the turn for a cheap showdown, especially on this dry of a flop? If you want a cheap showdown you check it. Here you are unlikely to get paid off big by a worse hand so you might as well play the hand passively for metagame purposes.

Also if you all are so concerned about getting value you are probably more likely to get called on the river than you are on the turn. IMO anyone with half a brain will see through a turn lead.

I also think a river bet will probably induce more bluffs than a turn bet.

[creedofhubris]

Hand 1: I bet river $600, he moves in for 700 more, I call, he has the nuts.

In hindsight, my river bet size is lousy.

Hand #2:

I come over the top on the flop to 1K. He pushes. I call. He has TT (?!), does not hit his two outs.

(I decided that ordinarily on a drawless board I would play the nuts real slow against this guy, so this time I would play it fast. Worked out, somehow, but the trappy trappy is probably a much better line most of the time.)

[ZeeJustin]

On hand 1, I like a weak river lead. Maybe you get a call from 77 that you wouldn't otherwise get, or maybe he'll try to bluff you out.

In hand 2, I'd call the flop and lead $475 into him on the turn. It makes it look like you are trying to figure out where you are, and might confuse the opponent a bit.

Edit: I guess I'm just agreeing with Mad Genius here.

[kagame]

hand 1: just a tough spot, i dont lead the river

hand 2: a good player will immediately realize a stop and go. imho, this is not the best way to trap.