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#11
08-23-2006, 04:15 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I probably wouldn't raise with it to begin with [/ QUOTE ] What would you do with it? [/ QUOTE ] Well I realize I may be in the minority here but I would just call in that situation. I can understand wanting to raise to chase out others behind you, but in MP+1 I would still be worried about having numerous people behind me still yet to act. If I was in LP or on the button and it hadn't been raised I would definitely raise it up. Also, if it were suited I would probably raise in that spot. I just don't like the offsuitedness of the hand. In no way am I saying it's the "right" play, but that's typically how I play it. As I said though, I consider myself a very tight player. [/ QUOTE ] If you don't want to raise it, you are better off folding it. By open/limping you invite hands like 9T or Q9 or whatever rags they have in the blinds to suck up on you. AJo is not the hand you want to play with many players in the pot. About worrying the other players act after you - well, this is the part of the game, they WILL act after you most of the time. 
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#12
08-23-2006, 04:37 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
I'm going to post blind, here, and say that I've never seen a situation where it's correct to pfr and then fold preflop. One or the other of those actions is incorrect. Since it's AJ we're talking about, I guess you could raise it in EP, get 3-bet by a rock in MP, and capped by another rock in LP...that could be a fold. Let's look at the hand...
Wow. I was close. Getting better than 5:1 I call, especially if "conventional" means "predictable."
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#13
08-23-2006, 04:43 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I probably wouldn't raise with it to begin with [/ QUOTE ] What would you do with it? [/ QUOTE ] Well I realize I may be in the minority here but I would just call in that situation. I can understand wanting to raise to chase out others behind you, but in MP+1 I would still be worried about having numerous people behind me still yet to act. If I was in LP or on the button and it hadn't been raised I would definitely raise it up. Also, if it were suited I would probably raise in that spot. I just don't like the offsuitedness of the hand. In no way am I saying it's the "right" play, but that's typically how I play it. As I said though, I consider myself a very tight player. [/ QUOTE ] AJo is definitely a raise/fold sort of hand. You really don't want to play a multiways pot with it. Then again, I never open-limp. Ever.
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#14
08-23-2006, 04:49 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I probably wouldn't raise with it to begin with [/ QUOTE ] What would you do with it? [/ QUOTE ] Well I realize I may be in the minority here but I would just call in that situation. I can understand wanting to raise to chase out others behind you, but in MP+1 I would still be worried about having numerous people behind me still yet to act. If I was in LP or on the button and it hadn't been raised I would definitely raise it up. Also, if it were suited I would probably raise in that spot. I just don't like the offsuitedness of the hand. In no way am I saying it's the "right" play, but that's typically how I play it. As I said though, I consider myself a very tight player. [/ QUOTE ] If you don't want to raise it, you are better off folding it. By open/limping you invite hands like 9T or Q9 or whatever rags they have in the blinds to suck up on you. AJo is not the hand you want to play with many players in the pot. About worrying the other players act after you - well, this is the part of the game, they WILL act after you most of the time. [/ QUOTE ] Good points. When I was talking about players acting behind me I was thinking more along the lines of getting re-raised with, what I consider, not a premium hand. Then again, maybe that's just me overthinking things...
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#15
08-23-2006, 04:56 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
Well I realize I may be in the minority here but I would just call in that situation...I consider myself a very tight player. [/ QUOTE ] This isn't the definition of "tight" - it's the definition of "passive".
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#16
08-23-2006, 04:58 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to post blind, here, and say that I've never seen a situation where it's correct to pfr and then fold preflop. One or the other of those actions is incorrect. Since it's AJ we're talking about, I guess you could raise it in EP, get 3-bet by a rock in MP, and capped by another rock in LP...that could be a fold. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I don't think either PFR has to be a rock. As long as either of them is something other than "retarded LAG" (especially the capper) you can fold basically any non-suited, non-pair hand here except AK. Would you call with AJo if a non-lag raised UTG and got 3 or 4 callers? Calling here is worse IMO. As for the inital action hijack: folding is worse than limping, and both are wrong.
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#17
08-23-2006, 04:59 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
Then again, I never open-limp. Ever. [/ QUOTE ] This is a much worse policy than "sometimes" open-limping AJo in MP to "mix it up."
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#18
08-23-2006, 05:01 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
AJo is definitely a raise/fold sort of hand. You really don't want to play a multiways pot with it. [/ QUOTE ] No, it's really not. If there are several limpers already it can be correct to limp preflop. While it plays easier in position against one or two hands it's also ok in a large field. Folding AJo preflop in an unraised pot in a game below 10/20 is just ridiculous.
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#19
08-23-2006, 05:13 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] AJo is definitely a raise/fold sort of hand. You really don't want to play a multiways pot with it. [/ QUOTE ] No, it's really not. If there are several limpers already it can be correct to limp preflop. While it plays easier in position against one or two hands it's also ok in a large field. Folding AJo preflop in an unraised pot in a game below 10/20 is just ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] This is the stance I've always taken. I don't mind multiway pots with a hand like A,Jo. Moreover, if it's A,Js I really don't mind multiway pots. The offsuit hand is, to me at least, a pretty easy hand to get away from postflop. Bear in mind I say this assuming I have a good read on the other players at the table.
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#20
08-23-2006, 05:42 PM
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Re: Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic?
Matusow: I will sometimes take this apporach with hands like KJo and ATo UTG in a loose game, but the problem with AJo from middle position is that the pot probably won't be multiway anyway, and your hand is good enough that you're missing value if you would have been cold-called.
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