11r: AA Standard?

[Jay Riall]

[ QUOTE ]
What if they don't have a pocket pair? You don't know what the opponent has. If they have the King, a Check-Raise here will almost certaintly define it everytime, allowing you to get away from this situation.

Sorry, I think your advice is poor. JMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will rarely get a chance to check-raise the flop. They will usually check behind in my experience. I doubt a king bets here very much atall tbh, so your check-raise will usually be folding out a hand you crush.

[sekrah]

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so your check-raise will usually be folding out a hand you crush.

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And the problem here?

This is an $11, there will be PLENTY of chip making opportunities. Why stick 20 BBs in when you don't have to.


Flop: Check-Check
Turn: Check-Check
River: Bet 400-Opponent Calls, Shows 8-8. Hero Takes pot, now has 2935 in chips.


I have no problem with that.

Being stuck on "Must get the most chips out of my opponent EVERY SINGLE HAND" is terribly flawed in the fact that you have no idea what your opponent has.


Are you a $10 SNG player? Sit at my table anyday of the week, please.

[Jay Riall]

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[ QUOTE ]
so your check-raise will usually be folding out a hand you crush.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the problem here?

This is an $11, there will be PLENTY of chip making opportunities. Why stick 20 BBs in when you don't have to.


Flop: Check-Check
Turn: Check-Check
River: Bet 400-Opponent Calls, Shows 8-8. Hero Takes pot.


I have no problem with that.

Being stuck on "Must get the most chips out of my opponent EVERY SINGLE HAND" is terribly flawed in the fact that you have no idea what your opponent has.


Are you a $10 SNG player? Sit at my table anyday of the week, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I moved up from the 11s a while back, and had a 30% ROI at them if you want to get personal. I'm trying to give constructive analysis of a hand theres no need to be a dick.

[DaN_05]

Ermm and WTF wouldn't you rather bet flop for t300, villians calls. You check turn, villian bets say t800 because he thinks he's good. Then you should be both committed by the river and you take a much bigger pot. You're just throwing away money here IMO.

I don't really care about what hand my opponent has here, all I care about is I'm far above his range and that's all that counts.

And LOL at the "sit at my table anyday of the week, please." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sekrah]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so your check-raise will usually be folding out a hand you crush.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the problem here?

This is an $11, there will be PLENTY of chip making opportunities. Why stick 20 BBs in when you don't have to.


Flop: Check-Check
Turn: Check-Check
River: Bet 400-Opponent Calls, Shows 8-8. Hero Takes pot.


I have no problem with that.

Being stuck on "Must get the most chips out of my opponent EVERY SINGLE HAND" is terribly flawed in the fact that you have no idea what your opponent has.


Are you a $10 SNG player? Sit at my table anyday of the week, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I moved up from the 11s a while back, and had a 30% ROI at them if you want to get personal. I'm trying to give constructive analysis of a hand theres no need to be a dick.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not being a dick. I'm just stunned at the number of people who have the "Must go broke with Aces" philosophy.

You can have a 30% ROI playing that way. THat doesn't make it optimal. I'll send off strength tells on the flop and find out how good my opponent is and fold my Aces to his K-10, avoiding bustout. But I'm good enough to get a good read on my opponent for this type of maneuver. SOme aren't.


Why didn't you just suggest to the original poster to push all-in on the flop them?? Your opponent will call with just about whatever he has (Pocket Pair or King).

[TravestyFund]

I dont fold

[Jay Riall]

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I dont fold

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Sekrah obviosuly wants you to come and sit at his table also trav.

[Jay Riall]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so your check-raise will usually be folding out a hand you crush.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the problem here?

This is an $11, there will be PLENTY of chip making opportunities. Why stick 20 BBs in when you don't have to.


Flop: Check-Check
Turn: Check-Check
River: Bet 400-Opponent Calls, Shows 8-8. Hero Takes pot.


I have no problem with that.

Being stuck on "Must get the most chips out of my opponent EVERY SINGLE HAND" is terribly flawed in the fact that you have no idea what your opponent has.


Are you a $10 SNG player? Sit at my table anyday of the week, please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I moved up from the 11s a while back, and had a 30% ROI at them if you want to get personal. I'm trying to give constructive analysis of a hand theres no need to be a dick.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not being a dick. I'm just stunned at the number of people who have the "Must go broke with Aces" philosophy.

You can have a 30% ROI playing that way. THat doesn't make it optimal. I'll send off strength tells on the flop and find out how good my opponent is and fold my Aces to his K-10, avoiding bustout. But I'm good enough to get a good read on my opponent for this type of maneuver. SOme aren't.


Why didn't you just suggest to the original poster to push all-in on the flop them?? Your opponent will call with just about whatever he has (Pocket Pair or King).

[/ QUOTE ]

People have a must go broke with aces approach at the lower levels becuase the players there suck. You will be a shown a hand you crush there enough to make folding AA on almost any board -EV. You give your opponents far too much credit.

[sekrah]

LOL If he's not gonna fold Aces when I have a Kowboy in my hand.. Of course I want him at my table.

You guys all want to Bet Flop, Check-Call down.

First off.. The chances of him having a pocket pair are SIGNIFICANTLY less than normal, due to the fact that preflop action was folded to the SB who make a bet that looked like a steal.

10-10, J-J, Q-Q almost certaintly plays back here with a raise. And 77-99 often does as well. The flat calls tells me paint, Raising the probability that it's not a pair, but infact, a king.


If I have AA here against your pocket 77-99 Jay.. If I Check-Raise flop, Are you, who wanted to be passive with Aces, now going to keep firing bullets with your 7-7?

I want to be AGGRESSIVE here. Check-Raise is more aggressive than C-Betting.

It's not complicated. I'm suprised you don't understand. If villain doesnt want to put any chips in on the flop or turn, then put in a 3-5 BB bet on the river, take down the pot and be happy you got away with A-A on a [censored] board.

Like I said, come sit with me guys anytime.

[djames]

Isn't there a compromise between the c/c, c/c, c/c line and the b c/c, c/c line? Why not b, b/f, block? Will 77-QQ raise this turn without a king? I say no. Will they call another bet with A6, A2, 77-QQ? Sometimes, but not always.

There are other ways to extract value from the hands you beat, but that save your stack to the Kx hands.

The reason I'm not crazy about the bet, c/c, c/c line (although I admit that this would be my default line), is that I often see Kx just pushing on the turn when I check. The accepted STTF thinking seems to be that they have crapola often enough to make calling a turn push ok, but I don't think this is necessarily true (if it went bet-call, check-push). The pot qualifies as huge at this point, and if I was the villain who called the flop and faced a turn check, I'd push ~100% of the time I have a K or 66 and I'd check ~100% of the time I don't have a K or 66. Checking would mean I have 77-QQ as I wouldn't get to the turn with anything else. I don't see hands that Hero would call a smaller raise but not a push.