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#12
08-13-2006, 05:58 PM
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Home Game Hand
Surprised you're not hastling me for even thinking about folding that K9 hand.
[/ QUOTE ] Are you going to post that hand? [/ QUOTE ] The point of posting the hand is only marginally interesting I think. There are only two points to consider: 1) how strong is your hand (hand range), or how much equity do I have? 2) The opportunity to bust out another good player. #2 is really the only thing that I still wonder about. Given the quality of play of the other two players still left in the game, and the amount of chips stacks and chipstack/blind ratio, I just don't know if I can find any reason where folding is correct. I'll post the hand though, just for fun... SNG Home Game: 5 player home game, The softest spot has already busted, and I took most of his chips when I flopped the nut straight (J9 on a 8TQ board) and he did everything possible to double me up. Payout is 70/30, starting stacks were t4,000. Cha59 plays a very normal 2+2 Party Poker style during these games. I'm looser, which I'm sure cha59 is aware of. Here's the hand from memory, as best as I can. Everything important is accurate: UTG: t4300 Button: t3300 Hero: t7500 Cha59: t4900 Blinds: t200/t400 Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 folds, Hero completes, Cha59 knocks Flop (t800) K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Hero leads for t400, Cha59 raises t4500 (allin) At this time, I put you on the following type of hands: KQ, Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] X, A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] X I don't think you have AK, AJ. Maybe A9, although not very likely). AT is another interesting maybe knock hand for you. I guess my point is that besides the monotone nature of this board, it's also very straigtening. Anyhow, I think calling could be considered questionable if I think you'd only shove with 13 outs instead of 9. Of course, you probably did think you have 13. Your severe overbet clearly did not want to be called, but how much equity did I have? I was guessing I had somewhere between 55 and 64% equity, with it being more heavily weighted towards the bigger number. Furthermore, if I just had a king, I'm certain you think I could/would lay that down to this bet, and you'd likely be right. Again, the question I still think about is do I gain much equity by knocking you out of the game at this stage, especially with you on my right? Overall, I think the two of us playing against the other two soft spots then fighting HU is more profitable. That being said, I have likely a huge equity edge in this pot, so I called. Obviously we're only talking about this hand 'cos home games are clearly rigged. Perhaps a question I should ask you, how would you play it if I had made a PSB instead of half? 
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#13
08-13-2006, 09:09 PM
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Re: Home Game Hand
[ QUOTE ]
Surprised you're not hastling me for even thinking about folding that K9 hand. [/ QUOTE ] Are you going to post that hand? [/ QUOTE ] The point of posting the hand is only marginally interesting I think. There are only two points to consider: 1) how strong is your hand (hand range), or how much equity do I have? 2) The opportunity to bust out another good player. #2 is really the only thing that I still wonder about. Given the quality of play of the other two players still left in the game, and the amount of chips stacks and chipstack/blind ratio, I just don't know if I can find any reason where folding is correct. I'll post the hand though, just for fun... SNG Home Game: 5 player home game, The softest spot has already busted, and I took most of his chips when I flopped the nut straight (J9 on a 8TQ board) and he did everything possible to double me up. Payout is 70/30, starting stacks were t4,000. Cha59 plays a very normal 2+2 Party Poker style during these games. I'm looser, which I'm sure cha59 is aware of. Here's the hand from memory, as best as I can. Everything important is accurate: UTG: t4300 Button: t3300 Hero: t7500 Cha59: t4900 Blinds: t200/t400 Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 folds, Hero completes, Cha59 knocks Flop (t800) K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Hero leads for t400, Cha59 raises t4500 (allin) At this time, I put you on the following type of hands: KQ, Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] X, A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] X I don't think you have AK, AJ. Maybe A9, although not very likely). AT is another interesting maybe knock hand for you. I guess my point is that besides the monotone nature of this board, it's also very straigtening. Anyhow, I think calling could be considered questionable if I think you'd only shove with 13 outs instead of 9. Of course, you probably did think you have 13. Your severe overbet clearly did not want to be called, but how much equity did I have? I was guessing I had somewhere between 55 and 64% equity, with it being more heavily weighted towards the bigger number. Furthermore, if I just had a king, I'm certain you think I could/would lay that down to this bet, and you'd likely be right. Again, the question I still think about is do I gain much equity by knocking you out of the game at this stage, especially with you on my right? Overall, I think the two of us playing against the other two soft spots then fighting HU is more profitable. That being said, I have likely a huge equity edge in this pot, so I called. Obviously we're only talking about this hand 'cos home games are clearly rigged. Perhaps a question I should ask you, how would you play it if I had made a PSB instead of half? [/ QUOTE ] I certainly give it more thought if you pot it. I might push anyway, but I might lay down depending on how strong I thought you were. I wouldnt have called a pot bet (I considered calling the 1/2 pot bet in the hand). I think I'd make that decision based on feel at the time so I cant say for sure (in live games I generally try to use that "spidy sense" to figure out where I'm at in a hand before I make a play. Of course that sense failed me when you pwned me HU later on in the last game). That pot tells me you are either trying to buy the pot with a semi-bluff draw or you have a seriously good hand (small flush, straight, set or 2-pair). On that board, there are so many possibilities. I think the half pot bet makes your range a lot wider. I'll get into the way the hand actually played out and why I did what I did if anyone else is interested.
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#14
08-14-2006, 10:43 AM
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Re: Home Game Hand
[ QUOTE ]
I'll get into the way the hand actually played out and why I did what I did if anyone else is interested. [/ QUOTE ] Who isn't interested? BTW, best conversation of the night. Two of the guys playing work together at a Diamond shop. One is Dan, and the other is Jason. They were chatting about some **hot** gal that came into the jewelry store, that Dan ended up going out with afterwards. Dan: "Yeah, she was fiiine." Jason: "No way, you actually went out with her?" Dan: "Yeah, it was swell." Jason: "Did you [censored] her?" Dan: "Yeah..." (and then some details I'll pass on). Jason: "Did you use a condom?" Dan: "No, I used my di.ck."
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#15
08-14-2006, 12:44 PM
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Re: Home Game Hand
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'll get into the way the hand actually played out and why I did what I did if anyone else is interested. [/ QUOTE ] Who isn't interested? BTW, best conversation of the night. Two of the guys playing work together at a Diamond shop. One is Dan, and the other is Jason. They were chatting about some **hot** gal that came into the jewelry store, that Dan ended up going out with afterwards. Dan: "Yeah, she was fiiine." Jason: "No way, you actually went out with her?" Dan: "Yeah, it was swell." Jason: "Did you [censored] her?" Dan: "Yeah..." (and then some details I'll pass on). Jason: "Did you use a condom?" Dan: "No, I used my di.ck." [/ QUOTE ] lol, that was great.... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] SNG Home Game: 5 player home game, The softest spot has already busted, and I took most of his chips when I flopped the nut straight (J9 on a 8TQ board) and he did everything possible to double me up. Payout is 70/30, starting stacks were t4,000. Cha59 plays a very normal 2+2 Party Poker style during these games. I'm looser, which I'm sure cha59 is aware of. Here's the hand from memory, as best as I can. Everything important is accurate: UTG: t4300 Button: t3300 Hero: t7500 Cha59: t4900 Blinds: t200/t400 Hero is dealt K 9 2 folds, Hero completes, Cha59 knocks Flop (t800) K J 9 Hero leads for t400, Cha59 raises t4500 (allin) At this time, I put you on the following type of hands: KQ, Q X, A X I don't think you have AK, AJ. Maybe A9, although not very likely). AT is another interesting maybe knock hand for you. I guess my point is that besides the monotone nature of this board, it's also very straigtening. Anyhow, I think calling could be considered questionable if I think you'd only shove with 13 outs instead of 9. Of course, you probably did think you have 13. Your severe overbet clearly did not want to be called, but how much equity did I have? I was guessing I had somewhere between 55 and 64% equity, with it being more heavily weighted towards the bigger number. Furthermore, if I just had a king, I'm certain you think I could/would lay that down to this bet, and you'd likely be right. Again, the question I still think about is do I gain much equity by knocking you out of the game at this stage, especially with you on my right? Overall, I think the two of us playing against the other two soft spots then fighting HU is more profitable. That being said, I have likely a huge equity edge in this pot, so I called. Obviously we're only talking about this hand 'cos home games are clearly rigged. Perhaps a question I should ask you, how would you play it if I had made a PSB instead of half? I certainly give it more thought if you pot it. I might push anyway, but I might lay down depending on how strong I thought you were. I wouldnt have called a pot bet (I considered calling the 1/2 pot bet in the hand). I think I'd make that decision based on feel at the time so I cant say for sure (in live games I generally try to use that "spidy sense" to figure out where I'm at in a hand before I make a play. Of course that sense failed me when you pwned me HU later on in the last game). That pot tells me you are either trying to buy the pot with a semi-bluff draw or you have a seriously good hand (small flush, straight, set or 2-pair). On that board, there are so many possibilities. I think the half pot bet makes your range a lot wider. I'll get into the way the hand actually played out and why I did what I did if anyone else is interested. [/ QUOTE ] I have A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6x. My thinking is, you make a half pot bet which probably means you have a wide range including many pair hands & draws. I have a draw with 9 outs to the nuts, 3 more A outs if you have a pair (which in my mind is a strong possibility) and about one more out if a runner runner straight hits. Even if you have a hand stronger than one pair, I have 9 outs to the nuts. I figure if I push, I'm telling you I have a medium-strong made hand, a very strong draw, or a pair/draw combo. I think most times I take whats in the pot right away. If I dont, I can always double up off the best player at the table if I hit one of my outs. I dont mind gambling in a situation like that. I had about 11 BBs left and it was going to be time to start pushing soon anyway. The guys on my left liked calling so I figured I was going to have to gamble with someone at some point soon. With you taking as many stabs at pots as you were, I figured this was a good opportunity. I did think about calling, but didnt want to bleed more chips if I missed on the turn and I figured if a spade hit on the turn, you'd shut down so I wouldnt get paid off. I think you made a good call based on your read of me. K9 was not a hand I wanted to see you have there. Too bad for you home games are rigged and I hit on the river [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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