Police kill Polish man @ Vancouver Airport

[Peter666]

You make it sound as if there is a huge difference between tasering someone and taking them down manually. Yet you yourself were pontificating about the ease at which one can break a human neck.

There is far more likelyhood of injury to both parties with the take down method. Also, the take down often results in having to escalate the situation to batons or tasers anyway.

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

[LazyBob]

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

ofc we dont want this to happen, but this doesnt mean cops can kill people couse they are to lazy to do their job.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if there is a huge difference between tasering someone and taking them down manually. Yet you yourself were pontificating about the ease at which one can break a human neck.

There is far more likelyhood of injury to both parties with the take down method. Also, the take down often results in having to escalate the situation to batons or tasers anyway.

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's way too much exaggeration going on here. Cops physically restrain people all the time. Neck breaking is rarely any part of it, nor is death. Nor crippling of any type, much less "badly."

You're over-extending your argument way beyond reasonableness. There's zero reason to insist that every situation is some sort of life-and-death, all-or-nothing matter. That's not even remotely close to the truth, so it really doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm starting to think "sharks with lasers" is gonna make an appearance in here somewhere, or that we're overdue for a Hitler remark.

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if there is a huge difference between tasering someone and taking them down manually. Yet you yourself were pontificating about the ease at which one can break a human neck.

There is far more likelyhood of injury to both parties with the take down method. Also, the take down often results in having to escalate the situation to batons or tasers anyway.

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's way too much exaggeration going on here. Cops physically restrain people all the time. Neck breaking is rarely any part of it, nor is death. Nor crippling of any type, much less "badly."

You're over-extending your argument way beyond reasonableness. There's zero reason to insist that every situation is some sort of life-and-death, all-or-nothing matter. That's not even remotely close to the truth, so it really doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm starting to think "sharks with lasers" is gonna make an appearance in here somewhere, or that we're overdue for a Hitler remark.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're doing the exaggerating. There have been over 8000 recorded uses of the Taser in Canada since its inception. 16 of those incidents have resulted in death, not necessarily attrituble to the Taser.

Judging by the highly stressed, often drug induced states that the suspects are in, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that 0.2% of incidents using physical force of any kind will result in death.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You make it sound as if there is a huge difference between tasering someone and taking them down manually. Yet you yourself were pontificating about the ease at which one can break a human neck.

There is far more likelyhood of injury to both parties with the take down method. Also, the take down often results in having to escalate the situation to batons or tasers anyway.

What would people be saying if a cop was accidentally killed or badly cirppled while taking someone down, when a taser could have been employed instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's way too much exaggeration going on here. Cops physically restrain people all the time. Neck breaking is rarely any part of it, nor is death. Nor crippling of any type, much less "badly."

You're over-extending your argument way beyond reasonableness. There's zero reason to insist that every situation is some sort of life-and-death, all-or-nothing matter. That's not even remotely close to the truth, so it really doesn't belong in this discussion.

I'm starting to think "sharks with lasers" is gonna make an appearance in here somewhere, or that we're overdue for a Hitler remark.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're doing the exaggerating. There have been over 8000 recorded uses of the Taser in Canada since its inception. 16 of those incidents have resulted in death, not necessarily attrituble to the Taser.

Judging by the highly stressed, often drug induced states that the suspects are in, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that 0.2% of incidents using physical force of any kind will result in death.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I haven't done any exaggerating so you are criticizing nothing and merely being reactive and not really making cogent comments anymore.

[Wires]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're doing the exaggerating. There have been over 8000 recorded uses of the Taser in Canada since its inception. 16 of those incidents have resulted in death, not necessarily attrituble to the Taser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you provide the source of your data, Peter? From what I've been able to gather 8000 seems very high. My only resource is Google so bear with me.

"The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have said they are reviewing Taser use. Eighteen people have died in Canada after being hit with a Taser in the last four years."

"The 606 incidents analyzed by The Canadian Press took place between March 2002 and March 2005, the latest data available from the RCMP under the Access to Information Act. (In 43 cases, officers removed a Taser from its holster but did not fire.)...In 105 cases, RCMP officers stunned prisoners they had detained -- the vast majority of them unarmed, many of them native." - CTV News

"Three out of four suspects stun-gunned by the RCMP were unarmed, indicates a review of 563 cases that shows Tasers are often used for compliance rather than to defuse major threats." - Canadian Press

I cannot find any hard data to support or refute 8000 but it seems high to me. Western Canada has the highest Taser use where the RCMP does far more policing than in the East. The RCMP reports indicate approx 600 uses since 2002 with 18 deaths (some of these 18 deaths are attributable to local police forces and not the RCMP).

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you're doing the exaggerating. There have been over 8000 recorded uses of the Taser in Canada since its inception. 16 of those incidents have resulted in death, not necessarily attrituble to the Taser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you provide the source of your data, Peter? From what I've been able to gather 8000 seems very high. My only resource is Google so bear with me.

"The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have said they are reviewing Taser use. Eighteen people have died in Canada after being hit with a Taser in the last four years."

"The 606 incidents analyzed by The Canadian Press took place between March 2002 and March 2005, the latest data available from the RCMP under the Access to Information Act. (In 43 cases, officers removed a Taser from its holster but did not fire.)...In 105 cases, RCMP officers stunned prisoners they had detained -- the vast majority of them unarmed, many of them native." - CTV News

"Three out of four suspects stun-gunned by the RCMP were unarmed, indicates a review of 563 cases that shows Tasers are often used for compliance rather than to defuse major threats." - Canadian Press

I cannot find any hard data to support or refute 8000 but it seems high to me. Western Canada has the highest Taser use where the RCMP does far more policing than in the East. The RCMP reports indicate approx 600 uses since 2002 with 18 deaths (some of these 18 deaths are attributable to local police forces and not the RCMP).

[/ QUOTE ]

My source was also from google, and it was an RCMP official who said that the RCMP and local police departments have used the taser in about 4000 incidents each. I can't find the exact article now, but this one has the police say that 4000 lives have been saved by the taser in Canada, and that it has been used over 100 000 times voluntarily in police training throughout the world without fatality. www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/

I believe the statistics you have are from a report that looked at a specific number of incidents in western Canada, and not all of them in general.

[supafrey]

[ QUOTE ]
been used over 100 000 times voluntarily in police training throughout the world without fatality.

[/ QUOTE ]

While this is somewhat relevant to prove general safety of the product, how many of those policemen had their arms clasped behind them, 4 guys on top of them, and 200lb being supported on their neck? Police are trained on taser use with medical staff five feet away, wearing loose clothing on karate-style gym mats with ample food/water/adrenaline doses/whatever nearby.

Give me 100,000 police in distress, surrounded by half a dozen armed men, in an airport, fiending for a smoke and terrified about the safety of their elderly mother, then taser them. We'll see how many fatality's we'll get then.

All this taser talk is sort of silly - the weapon itself is obviously less dangerous than a gun, and as such would be a good replacement for those kind of high-risk situations that police procedure ALREADY dictates. These men were NOT following standard procedure, and their incompetence mixed with the airport's apathy has resulted in a tragic incident - it's not their tool's fault.

[Blarg]

Have to agree that context is really important. A little anxiety about what a taser is going to feel like can't compete with the drama and fear going on when arrested, especially when swarmed by cops.

[Wires]

"I believe the statistics you have are from a report that looked at a specific number of incidents in western Canada, and not all of them in general. "

This is very possible. I've been curious about the hard numbers but I'm having a tough time finding the data.