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View Poll Results: Over/Under 18.5 Democratic pickups on Nov.7th?
Under 2 16.67%
Over 10 83.33%
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  #361  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:43 PM
Suigin406 Suigin406 is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

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There are a number of young OFs (thinking of LA and T.B.)on the trade market, so everyone thinking Milledge would draw an all-star is not being realistic. Two years ago no one wanted to trade him because his perceived value was high, and now everyone wanted to flip him for a stud pitcher. Well guess what, his trade value (evidenced by this trade) has gone down. Church is solid (somewhat popular in D.C. actually). Scheider signed an inflated contract a couple years ago (4 for $24M if I recall correctly) but is a solid catcher.

If I was a Mets fan, I would be still be disappointed with the trade. However, I think it is actually a disappointment that that Milledge's value was not higher. This causes regret that Omar did not sell high 1 year ago.

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If Millege's value is so low, why trade him at all?

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it's hard to tell what other teams thought of him, the guy can hit well, but his attitude is awful, but he could have been packaged for a player quite nicely if teams were that concerned about him being the centerpiece (if that makes sense), he might not be prized anymore, but he still prolly generates a lot of interest...

i don't buy into minaya saying he couldn't find a better offer than this, he could have waited for the meetings later on or if he wasn't impatient, could have simply held onto milledge and let him play his value back up a little...

agree with the regret that milledge wasn't traded a couple of years back, but definitely can't fault minaya for this, we just signed alou who was a question with his age and didn't have the depth we now have there, the only plus was beltran...also, the mets were committed to some youth and the success of reyes/wright may have edged them towards holding onto milledge...
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  #362  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:47 PM
LurchySoprano LurchySoprano is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092002093.html

Yeah, I don't see comments like those playing too well in New York...
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  #363  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:53 PM
wh1t3bread wh1t3bread is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092002093.html

Yeah, I don't see comments like those playing too well in New York...

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Yawn. That's 2 years ago. Sounds like he's kept him mouth shut since then. I guarantee Milledge will do/say something even dumber while in DC.
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  #364  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:54 PM
Zutroy Zutroy is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

lol (at the comments, that is), "clubhouse cancer" aside, Church is a pretty good outfielder. 114 OPS+ last year and his defense is apparently solid. I don't know much about the Mets' situation and it is possible that they could have gotten more, but at the end of the day they got an OF who is both an above average hitter and fielder. Of course, they might not need OFs but not a franchise killing deal at least.
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  #365  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:55 PM
crockpot crockpot is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

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Which is why I qualified it by noting that the defensive credit BP gives Church is considered accurate, hence it's not far off. I bet a .280 OF with very good D = 7 wins.

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okay, now i am picking on you. that is a ridiculous valuation. church is projected to be about a league-average bat. there is no realistic level of defense that can make a league-average corner bat into a 7-win player.

furthermore, church projects at -1 runs of defense in a corner next year. he had a good year in '07, but has not established a level of good play.

as a general rule, BP's defensive numbers are not very good, and you would do well to look elsewhere. although the fielding bible does agree church had a good year.
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  #366  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:02 PM
Vyse Vyse is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

PECOTA > whatever other projections so I ignore them.

I can't find much that says Church wasn't awesome defensively.

I don't know if you can espouse your own opinions or just regurgitate what you've found on the internet, but just linking stuff and saying "loldisagreeaments" doesn't do anything
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  #367  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:03 PM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

[ QUOTE ]
PECOTA > whatever other projections so I ignore them.

I can't find much that says Church wasn't awesome defensively.

I don't know if you can espouse your own opinions or just regurgitate what you've found on the internet, but just linking stuff and saying "loldisagreeaments" doesn't do anything

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According to 2007 PECOTA;
2008 MORP=Milledge $14.1, Church $6.7
2008 EQA=Milledge .287, Church .287
2008 Defnese in CF=Milledge -1, Church -2


Milledge is younger and more likely to improve while Church is older and more likely to decline. My guess is when the new PECOTA cards come out in Febuary, even after playing time adjustments, Milledge is going to be worth $3MM+ more than Church, according to MORP. The beating from 2009-2013 will be gargantuan.
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  #368  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:05 PM
Wynton Wynton is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

One thing people are not noting is that Milledge was really pretty poor defensively, despite his tools (kind of like Strawberry was at first). From what I've been reading, Church is considered very good defensively.

That should be taken into the equation.
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  #369  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:28 PM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

I don't want to come off as somebody in the anti-Church camp, I'm not. I think he's a pretty good ballplayer overall. If you can keep him as half of a platoon, he's really good. I'm sure you guys can tell by my valuation of other players, I'm more in the pro Milledge camp.

The real problem I have with this deal is, there is no real reason to make it right now. Pretty much no matter what happens between Milledge and Church in 2008, you would be able to make this deal at the trade deadline. The flip side is, when Milledge "hits", you've either got a great RF, or more to work with on the trade market. At the very least, give Milledge spring training to build value and see what you can get in late March. It could be more, but it can't be less.
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  #370  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:39 PM
Triumph36 Triumph36 is offline
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Default Re: *** Official NY Mets Our OFFSEASON Has Come Thread ***

[ QUOTE ]
PECOTA > whatever other projections so I ignore them.

I can't find much that says Church wasn't awesome defensively.

I don't know if you can espouse your own opinions or just regurgitate what you've found on the internet, but just linking stuff and saying "loldisagreeaments" doesn't do anything

[/ QUOTE ]

lolol this is exactly what you do all the time
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