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  #291  
Old 11-30-2007, 06:55 PM
kyleb kyleb is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

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Any fielder matrix that puts Adam Lind in the top 6 is WAY off.

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It is? Adam Lind is a pretty good fielder.

As for the other stuff:

Kaz Matsui: LOL
Nats/Mets trade: Mets are idiots, they could have had Blanton straight up for Milledge last summer. Beane is going to take his pound of flesh for Blanton/Haren now.
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  #292  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:04 PM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

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That and Crisp is overpaid, fragile and forgot how to hit.


[/ QUOTE ]

Crisp is violently underpaid.

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Melky has a lot more "upside". If I was rwperu I'd say something about "tools" or "floors/ceilings" or how I'd give part of my soul to fellate this guy, but instead I think guys who hit the bigs at age 22 and are MLB avg CFers have a pretty good track record as a whole.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactamundo! Even I've been uderrating Melky a little bit. I don't think he's got a super high ceiling, but he's pretty much league average already and only 22. He should be above average in his peak, and he'll still be in that peak heading into 2011 when the Twins will be looking to move him before he becomes a free agent.
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  #293  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:10 PM
Rubeskies Rubeskies is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any fielder matrix that puts Adam Lind in the top 6 is WAY off.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is? Adam Lind is a pretty good fielder.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I thought the reason everybody liked Reed Johnson over Lind was because Johnson was a way better fielder.
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  #294  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:21 PM
kyleb kyleb is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

Reed Johnson is definitely a better fielder, but Lind was good in 2007.
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  #295  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:37 PM
SL__72 SL__72 is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

Ok, you're right, he isn't actually overpaid. After putting together back to back seasons of below average (for CF) hitting I don't know that he is violently underpaid either. I think his stat-line the last two seasons is also more likely to be what he does going forward because he seems to have been running hot in 04/05.

[censored], a Tyner/Monroe platoon would probably be significantly better offensively.

Or maybe even Pridie + a rightie...
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  #296  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:53 PM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, you're right, he isn't actually overpaid. After putting together back to back seasons of below average (for CF) hitting I don't know that he is violently underpaid either. I think his stat-line the last two seasons is also more likely to be what he does going forward because he seems to have been running hot in 04/05.

[censored], a Tyner/Monroe platoon would probably be significantly better offensively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crisp is one of the very best defensive outfielders in the game.

Violent might be an overstatement. Admittedly, all I did was take a look at his WARP1 over the last couple of years, and multiply by $2.5MM. His career OPS+ is 94 and EQA is .255, so I'd imagine he's somewhere around average for a CF. With his glove, I'd guess he's worth north of $10MM/yr, and he's only due $17.5MM (IIRC) over the next three. He's not as valuable in that regard as Melky Cabrera, but he is still a very valuable asset.
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  #297  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:48 PM
wisehandpoker wisehandpoker is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
Reed Johnson is definitely a better fielder, but Lind was good in 2007.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I wish Lind was good in the field, he isn't.
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  #298  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:58 PM
kyleb kyleb is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reed Johnson is definitely a better fielder, but Lind was good in 2007.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I wish Lind was good in the field, he isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, fielding metrics disagree with you, and I am more inclined to believe them than someone who has watched a few games and is probably cherry-picking.
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  #299  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:34 PM
rwperu34 rwperu34 is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reed Johnson is definitely a better fielder, but Lind was good in 2007.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I wish Lind was good in the field, he isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, fielding metrics disagree with you, and I am more inclined to believe them than someone who has watched a few games and is probably cherry-picking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm too lazy to dig through my files, but as I recall, when Lind was coming up he was thought of as a guy who would hit but might not be able to hack it with the glove.

What I think is funny is, because fielding metrics said Lind had a good year in 2007, something that is debatable to begin with, people want to assume he's a good fielder. Same is going on in the Ryan Church discussion. Of course we know about this little thing called sample size, and 80 games or so is not enough for even the most reliable metrics. A good example of this would be to look at what the hitting metrics thought of Lind in 2007.
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  #300  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:40 PM
kyleb kyleb is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

All I know is that both PBP and Davenport translations like Lind in 2007 (and were netural in 2006), the only years that people would have seen him unless you guys go to a ton of minor league games that I don't know about.

It is possible to improve defensively, you know. Just because people thought he couldn't hack it doesn't mean he can't, and the only data we have on him shows that Lind is a average or plus fielder, so thinking that he is not a good fielder has pretty much no basis in reality at this point.
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