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View Poll Results: who likes
check/call 1 8.33%
bet/call 5 41.67%
bet/3b 5 41.67%
check/raise 1 8.33%
bet/fold (NITS) 0 0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2751  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:45 PM
microbet microbet is offline
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Location: fighting the power
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Default Re: $25NL, flop str8

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Results:

I thought for a second, re-evaluated stack sizes, and figured with the size of the pot and the texture of the flop, my equity was good enough to shove. So, that's what I did. He snap called and QQ>KJhh.

I ran poker stove on this and unless his range is only sets, 2pr and straights, I'm better than the 31% equity I need for shoving to be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it make it easier or harder to call if he check/shoves?

[/ QUOTE ]

It does for me. Either way you're playing for stacks if you continue with the hand and the shove weights villains range more towards the draws imo.

I'm a bit surprised at the pokerstove results Cha generated as I wouldn't have guessed QQ had that much equity there.

[/ QUOTE ]

The real killers for villain in cha's range are the JT, QT, KT, and AT hands. They are crushed.
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  #2752  
Old 11-29-2007, 03:56 PM
cha59 cha59 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: getting tarped by AXo
Posts: 3,070
Default Re: $25NL, flop str8

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Results:

I thought for a second, re-evaluated stack sizes, and figured with the size of the pot and the texture of the flop, my equity was good enough to shove. So, that's what I did. He snap called and QQ>KJhh.

I ran poker stove on this and unless his range is only sets, 2pr and straights, I'm better than the 31% equity I need for shoving to be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it make it easier or harder to call if he check/shoves?

[/ QUOTE ]

It does for me. Either way you're playing for stacks if you continue with the hand and the shove weights villains range more towards the draws imo.

I'm a bit surprised at the pokerstove results Cha generated as I wouldn't have guessed QQ had that much equity there.

[/ QUOTE ]

The real killers for villain in cha's range are the JT, QT, KT, and AT hands. They are crushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess villain's real range is probably somewhere in between what you and I ran. I cant imagine it not including more T's than what you had, but maybe not all that I had.
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  #2753  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:01 PM
cha59 cha59 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: getting tarped by AXo
Posts: 3,070
Default Re: STTF SNG->cash thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is 19/15/3.8 through 310 hands and has a flop AF of 10.5

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $115.60
UTG+1: $290.50
CO: $103.40
Button: $58.45
SB: $162.50
BB: $98

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($9, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $21</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($51, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $32</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $90.6</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't we just be in a call turn/call river mode here? Possibly value betting the river if he checks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's little chance villain has a hand like AJ (or a worse A) here and more likely he has cc or a set. AK and AQ are also possible. I dont know what to do here but I kind of think the best, or least bad decisions, are either shove or fold the turn because of the pot and stack sizes.
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  #2754  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:05 PM
K䲰䮥n K䲰䮥n is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,616
Default Re: STTF SNG->cash thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is 19/15/3.8 through 310 hands and has a flop AF of 10.5

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $115.60
UTG+1: $290.50
CO: $103.40
Button: $58.45
SB: $162.50
BB: $98

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($9, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $21</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($51, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $32</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $90.6</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't we just be in a call turn/call river mode here? Possibly value betting the river if he checks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's little chance villain has a hand like AJ (or a worse A) here and more likely he has cc or a set. AK and AQ are also possible. I dont know what to do here but I kind of think the best, or least bad decisions, are either shove or fold the turn because of the pot and stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there is no option to the calling of the flop raise?
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  #2755  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:14 PM
cha59 cha59 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: getting tarped by AXo
Posts: 3,070
Default Re: STTF SNG->cash thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is 19/15/3.8 through 310 hands and has a flop AF of 10.5

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $115.60
UTG+1: $290.50
CO: $103.40
Button: $58.45
SB: $162.50
BB: $98

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($9, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $21</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($51, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $32</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $90.6</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't we just be in a call turn/call river mode here? Possibly value betting the river if he checks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's little chance villain has a hand like AJ (or a worse A) here and more likely he has cc or a set. AK and AQ are also possible. I dont know what to do here but I kind of think the best, or least bad decisions, are either shove or fold the turn because of the pot and stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there is no option to the calling of the flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know about that, but I think the flop checkraise/turn bet screams strength for a guy with numbers like he has. At the time of the checkraise his range is wider so maybe calling the flop bet isnt bad? Someone correct me if I'm wrong here please.
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  #2756  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:57 PM
K䲰䮥n K䲰䮥n is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,616
Default Re: STTF SNG->cash thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is 19/15/3.8 through 310 hands and has a flop AF of 10.5

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $115.60
UTG+1: $290.50
CO: $103.40
Button: $58.45
SB: $162.50
BB: $98

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($9, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $21</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($51, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $32</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $90.6</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldn't we just be in a call turn/call river mode here? Possibly value betting the river if he checks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's little chance villain has a hand like AJ (or a worse A) here and more likely he has cc or a set. AK and AQ are also possible. I dont know what to do here but I kind of think the best, or least bad decisions, are either shove or fold the turn because of the pot and stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there is no option to the calling of the flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know about that, but I think the flop checkraise/turn bet screams strength for a guy with numbers like he has. At the time of the checkraise his range is wider so maybe calling the flop bet isnt bad? Someone correct me if I'm wrong here please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since villain is OOP wont he be betting most of his draws on any turn (instead of him being IP when he could get a free river)?
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  #2757  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:57 PM
DevinLake DevinLake is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,022
Default Re: $25NL, flop str8

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a reasonable range?

Board: 8c Th 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.242% 48.39% 00.85% 69462 1225.00 { QdQh }
Hand 1: 50.758% 49.90% 00.85% 71638 1225.00 { 66+, AhKh, AhQh, AhJh, ATs, Ah9h, KhJh, KTs, Kh9h, QhJh, QTs, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, ATo, KTo, QTo, J9o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o }

I can see why you are not very happy about sticking it in there on that board, but with all that overlay it seems to me like there's only one correct decision. NH

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your range is too wide. But, I got similiar results even with a tighter range.

I wouldn't include too many off suit hands, except maybe ATo.

K9hh is probably a stretch.

Also, you have AhQh but I have Qh, although I'm sure poker stove accounted for this.

It is also difficult to estimate if he values say 87s the same as suited broadways.
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  #2758  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:02 PM
DevinLake DevinLake is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,022
Default Re: $25NL, flop str8

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Results:

I thought for a second, re-evaluated stack sizes, and figured with the size of the pot and the texture of the flop, my equity was good enough to shove. So, that's what I did. He snap called and QQ&gt;KJhh.

I ran poker stove on this and unless his range is only sets, 2pr and straights, I'm better than the 31% equity I need for shoving to be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it make it easier or harder to call if he check/shoves?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a difficult question, because as I stated above, a min raise is still a very signficant bet at 2/4. It's 77 BBs. So, if this was a thinking player he would realize that a min raise = a shove because if I can call a min raise I can call a shove.

But, I posted this in MSNL and there were people that thought it'd be easier to call if he just shoved. Obviously the shove makes you think more draws are possible.

Personally, the fact he min raised didn't really factor into my decision to shove.
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  #2759  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:07 PM
DevinLake DevinLake is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,022
Default Re: $25NL, flop str8

[ QUOTE ]
I get you are 28.6% against 77+,AhKh,AhJh,KhJh,J9s,Th9h,T8s,87s,6h5h,J9o,T8o,8 7o

KhJh is a slight favorite with the gutshot, flushdraw and over. This has range has 99, JJ, AhKh and AhJh which are the other strong draw or combo hands. In order to go over 31% he does have to include some much less strong hands like 65o.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or remove some unlikley hands like QQ+ and add some more likely combo draws like JTs, T9s and 89s.
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  #2760  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:56 PM
Jbrochu Jbrochu is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,068
Default $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

UTG ($57.90)
MP ($26.80)
CO ($48.90)
Button ($65)
jb ($52)
BB ($102.60)

Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25.

Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25.

River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds.

Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds?
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