Professional No-Limit Hold 'em study group

[Arcturus]

Matt, just received my copy 10 minutes ago. Looking forward to reading it and getting involved in the study group. Thanks for putting out the book!

[+EV]

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So how are we going to do this study group? Is the classic approach best where we take like a chapter or two and discuss it for a week and work through the book like that or what? Really looking forward to this getting up and going.

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one week after the big chains stock the book. possibly next week. can't wait. i love the enthusiasm and smarts here. it reminds me of my start in nl, except people here pick it up so much faster than i did.

do you like the chapters model? any better ideas for how to do it?

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Borders had the book at the Germantown and North Bethesda stores last weekend when I was there.

+EV

[derosnec]

the great derosnec - perpetual resident of 25nl and 50nl - has finished the book.

a terrific book because of the SPR sections. now when i read threads, i often want to respond, "your preflop raise size is wrong."

with that said, i will offer a criticism.

the SPR stuff is repeatedly touted by the authors because it makes postflop play easier. but at our stakes, 99% of our opponents play straightforward. so we don't have to worry much about being put in awkward situations when our SPR is 14 or whatever, because our opponents are generally easy to read - they take the same lines over and over and my db of a few hundred thousand hands confirms that (check-minraise = big hand, donk = crap, open shove when flush hits = flush, double barrel is a real hand, pf reraise is AA-KK/AK sometimes QQ, etc).

so SPR, assuming we understand the various micro lines and assuming we are proficient at equity calculations potsflop (range, potsize, equity), doesn't seem quite as helpful at our stakes as it would be at higher stakes. but that doesn't mean it's not helpful. i anticipate i will be raising different sizes preflop now. raising the same size with SCs as i would with AA just doesn't make sense anymore after reading the book. plus our opponents are not very good, so no need to go for same size pfr size to disguise our hands. plus it's interesting how a little difference in the pfr size makes a big difference in SPR. also interesting was the tables, which show what a crappy stack size 100bbs is for top pair/overpair type of hands, although again i'll say again that most of our opponents don't put pressure us on us postflop without big hands, so playing with 100bbs is not as difficult at our stakes than at higher ones.

anyways, my two cents. very good book.

[Matt Flynn]

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a terrific book because of the SPR sections. now when i read threads, i often want to respond, "your preflop raise size is wrong."

with that said, i will offer a criticism.

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thank you and fire away!

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the SPR stuff is repeatedly touted by the authors because it makes postflop play easier. but at our stakes, 99% of our opponents play straightforward. so we don't have to worry much about being put in awkward situations when our SPR is 14 or whatever, because our opponents are generally easy to read - they take the same lines over and over and my db of a few hundred thousand hands confirms that (check-minraise = big hand, donk = crap, open shove when flush hits = flush, double barrel is a real hand, pf reraise is AA-KK/AK sometimes QQ, etc).

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that is more than awesome. and true. SPR will help more against your 2+2 opponents and when you move up, but for now mostly you gotta play more hands.

would you believe 5-10 6-max nl on Party started that way? it was incredible. you'da killed it.

[Matt Flynn]

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that sounds good to me, will i be able to buy the book at the local book store?

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if you live in Canada or US yes. no clue about penetration in UK or Australia.

[boardertj]

Ordered mine on Amazon the day it came out. They said it would take 5-6 weeks to ship to Australia...got it yesterday in 3 weeks. Thank you Amazon!!

[neverforgetlol]

I will pick this up at B and N asap

[derosnec]

applied concepts of the book at 25nl (cheaper than 50nl) for 7k hands. excellent. works well, especially if you are flexible. commitment stuff is very good, because i noticed in the past i would get more than 1/3 of my stack in with no plan. also SPR gives me a postflop plan - before i would just raise 4xbb with every hand i wanted to raise with no postflop plan really. one thing though i've noticed is no one calls potsized bets on the flop (maybe too small of a sample size). so have to adjust for that. basically, the book has helped me get people all-in easier while keeping me out of my trouble postflop. i didn't expect the latter to happen because i'm pretty good with equity analysis on streets, but i think in the past i didn't see the forest for the trees and would often, with no plan, have like 40% of my stack in (say, on the turn) before i realized what was happening.

[Antinome]

I finished the book. I think I play a lot more PL than most regulars. For the most part the way we (uNL) normally recommend playing NL there are few differences between PL an NL when playing top pair hands. I raise pot, I cbet, etc... almost the same sizes that anyone here would in a NL hand.

Since reading this book I've been looking at my SPR in top pair sorts of hands in a 100BB stack PL context and I have not been very happy. I have preferred to play against shortstacks with these hands for a long time now, and now I suspect I know why.

Unfortunately, playing 100BB PL my ability to manipulate SPR toward the regions where top pair hands are comfortable is grossly circumscribed, particularly in the classic first-to-open situation that we normally occupy. Aside from buying in short myself, how should I manipulate SPR for top pair hands in PL? Limp-reraise more?

[Matt Flynn]

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Unfortunately, playing 100BB PL my ability to manipulate SPR toward the regions where top pair hands are comfortable is grossly circumscribed, particularly in the classic first-to-open situation that we normally occupy. Aside from buying in short myself, how should I manipulate SPR for top pair hands in PL? Limp-reraise more?

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you might, but there is no reliable way to set up comfortable commitment with one-pair hands with 100bb stacks.

we will have more to say about how to play these hands in volume 2, but there's no cure for the problem you describe.