Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[gimmetheloot]

Sorry for the people that were affected for nothing, ie the families of the dead dudes.

The man clearly said he was going to kill them when he says they are exiting the house.

I do think that this was excessive. From the tape you can hear that less than a minute after the man shoots the robbers the police arrive. I think the officer on the phone with the man was incredibly stupid and incompetent knowing that this man a) Had a loaded gun, B) Was pissed off and quite ready to use it, and C) Understood that he was legally within his rights to do so, and yet the officer does not tell him that the field officers are within 2-3 minutes of the scene.

I do not think the man needed to shoot them and merely pointing the gun at them from very near his front door would have sufficed to keep them in place until the police arrived.

I think this whole thing was handled pretty shittily on both sides, but humans err.

Despite my feelings on the handling of the situation, I HATE [censored] CRIMINALS and have no sympathy for those [censored]. DONT STEAL [censored] PEOPLE.

Edit:

After listening to the tape again, I feel that the guy is a bastard and is lying completely about the events of what happened outside.

He runs out and yells dont move or your dead, and immeditately fires a shot. I presume this one hit the first man and the second guy took off, and rightfully so. You then hear the second one close after, which (likely) misses, as a third shot needs to be fired as the man runs down the street.

He says he killed one guy in the other yard and the second as he ran down the street. I do not think the men charged him at all. I believe he knew before he stepped out of the house what was going to happen, and how he immediately tries to defend himself when he gets on the phone indicates that even more IMO.

Still, [censored] those criminals. I fully believe that if you intend to come and negatively effect the wellbieng of me and mine (family, friends, neighbors, what have you) that most retaliationary(is this a word?) action is justified. I think this case was excessive, but justified.

[daxtrader]

He took the law into his own hands even after a 911 dispatcher told him to stay in the house. Aren't you supposed to LISTEN to what a cop is telling you to do? HE DIDN'T LISTEN. After the shooting the dispatcher tells him he has undercover cops in the area and to put his gun down before he shoots someone. Precisely why you can't have citizens taking the law into their own hands.

What makes him skilled enough to go out and start shooting? He could've injured others, fired into another house. Then what? Would his actions still be justified?
Listen to the recording. He clearly feels he has a "moral" obligation to kill them. He's not trained to make this kind of judgment call and no one should be allowed to unless you are the one being attacked. And this was not in self defense. Chances are even the police would not have shot those thieves.

[gimmetheloot]

[ QUOTE ]
He took the law into his own hands even after a 911 dispatcher told him to stay in the house. Aren't you supposed to LISTEN to what a cop is telling you to do? HE DIDN'T LISTEN. After the shooting the dispatcher tells him he has undercover cops in the area and to put his gun down before he shoots someone. Precisely why you can't have citizens taking the law into their own hands.

What makes him skilled enough to go out and start shooting? He could've injured others, fired into another house. Then what? Would his actions still be justified?
Listen to the recording. He clearly feels he has a "moral" obligation to kill them. He's not trained to make this kind of judgment call and no one should be allowed to unless you are the one being attacked. And this was not in self defense. Chances are even the police would not have shot those thieves.

[/ QUOTE ]

We should always listen to our government. WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM GOD DAMNIT.

Also, how and where do you go about being "trained" to make a [censored] moral decision. ITS [censored] MORALS NOT BUILDING A RAFT.

[BeerMoney]

A real american hero... Bernhard Goetz.

[MuresanForMVP]

[ QUOTE ]
A real american hero... Bernhard Goetz.

[/ QUOTE ]


Man we just love throwing that term "hero" around dont we? Bernard Goetz was a basketcase loser. Here's a quote: the intent was to "murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible." Some more: [ QUOTE ]
Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun. Cabey, who was briefly standing prior to the shooting, was sitting on the subway bench during all attempted shots. In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again."

[/ QUOTE ]


The guy was bailed out when the idiot muggers were interviewed by a magazine and admitted that they were going to mug him, thus he acted to prevent a commission of a felony and was within his legal rights. They say nothing and he goes away for a long time.


"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

[starbird]

"Sir, if you leave your house, you are likely to be shot by the responding officers."

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]


"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

[/ QUOTE ]

Big difference between that and "Give me 5 dollars."

Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

To be honest though, I always thought the case was more clearcut then presented on wikipedia. I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right. I had always rememebered that he was threatened with the screwdrivers.. which he wasn't.

Also, why are those guys idiots for telling the truth about the case? Maybe they realize they deserved the bullet holes.

[MuresanForMVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

[/ QUOTE ]

Big difference between that and "Give me 5 dollars."

Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

To be honest though, I always thought the case was more clearcut then presented on wikipedia. I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right. I had always rememebered that he was threatened with the screwdrivers.. which he wasn't.

Also, why are those guys idiots for telling the truth about the case? Maybe they realize they deserved the bullet holes.

[/ QUOTE ]


One guy was paid like 50 bucks by a magazine and went off running his mouth. I think this "all scumbags deserve to die" view on the board is very disturbing, and I'm FAR FAR FAR away from a liberal who believes in strict gun control.

Yes, there is a difference between "give me 5 dollars" and "hey,can I have 5 dollars", but is that difference enough to warrant blasting away at somebody? Not in my mind.


[ QUOTE ]
Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

[/ QUOTE ]


Did I say this anywhere? Typical BS response. They were low-life criminals, Goetz was a homicidal nut-job who just HAPPENED to act within his legal limits. That's even debatable when taking this into account [ QUOTE ]
Preemptive self-defense, cases in which one kills another on suspicion that the victim might eventually become dangerous, is considered criminal, no matter how likely it is that one was right.

[/ QUOTE ] Btw, all 4 of the would-be muggers lived, did you even read the Wiki article?


The teenagers used the screwdrivers to steal quarters from video game machines, Goetz never once said they brandished the screwdrivers, he admitted to not even knowing they had them.

[ QUOTE ]
I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, he happened to be right. What if the kid just wanted 5 bucks? Goetz was a loser nutjob who pulled the trigger first, asked questions later, and the stars aligned in order for him to be acquitted. He was lucky for a number of reasons 1). They happened to have screwdrivers on them (which he admitted to not knowing) 2). One admitted they were going to mug him 3). His case came in the midst of a crime epidemic in New York City, where the public was fed up and much more likely to side with him, despite Goetz using excessive force given what had occurred up to that point in the incident 4). He only had 5 rounds in his gun. If he has a pistol with a 10 round magazine or even a 6 round revolver then he executes Cabey, and likely gets murder. He has more rounds and its reasonable that he goes around and offs each and every one of them. I mean just look at the quotes from this guy:


[ QUOTE ]
Goetz, pretending not to hear them, asked Canty, "What did you say?" Canty calmly repeated, "Give me five dollars." Goetz admitted to police that he "snapped" and that his intention at that point was to "murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible."

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again."

[/ QUOTE ]


The world does not need more people like Bernard Goetz.