How deep can Heads Up strategy go?

[rrrorrim]

How deep can No Limit Heads Up strategy actually go? Is it possible to win consistently at HU ... as much as you could in ring games?

I mean, in HU you're both "in the spotlight," both consciously aware that you're being watched. Even fish put on their thinking hats in HU. There's more effort to be devious.

HU intimidates me because I'm pessimistic and don't believe you can win consistently unless you're incredibly good.
Eh?

Hopefully someone understands me. Cause I don't even know what I'm asking... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mistere45]

I have friends that believe a heads-up challenge is a perfectly legitimate way to measure skill against one another. I dont agree. I feel that heads-up has the largest variance of any format in NLHE. Standards for hands are so much lower, that it really is hard to avoid going broke with big hand. It comes down to timing and agression that determines your sucess in heads up play, IMO.

[jay_shark]

Your variance is higher in heads up but your hourly earn is the greatest for the heads up player . You get dealt ~ 3 hands per minute which is one of the reasons why heads up is so profitable .

A heads up player earns more per hour than a 6-max player and a 6max player earns more per hour than a full ring player . Unfortunately , the heads up player experiences more variance but that shouldn't be a big concern if you're properly bankrolled .

[GeeBeeQED]

Beyond everything normally discussed, when playing heads up it's important to keep track of your opponents level of frustration, how loose he thinks your playing, how much bluff equity you have, how much contempt he's feeling. Imagine a wave in slow motion as it licks up and down a reed. All these things in similar fashion are growing or fading in your opponents mind all time. Sometimes getting in sink with your opponents emotional rythem will let you influence and control it. It helps you to know when to push because it's likely to be believed and when to push because the villian can't believe anything you do. You want your opponent to think your stealing when your not and think you've got a strong hand when you don't.

Heads up at high blind multiples (high M's) is very much a post flop game, as the stacks shrink relative to the blinds it becomes a preflop game. Noticing when your opponent makes this switch is important as it effects how he's going to react to you.

These are just a few of the "deeper" things to think about in heads up play.

If your thinking heads up is just a bunch of herky-jerk moves with no more skill or meaning than pushing the spin button on a slot machine then your not thinking about it deep enough.

Dave

[drzen]

Nice post, Dave. I'd add though that it's no use trying to level your opponent if he just doesn't think. I play a bit of HU at the end of SNGs, and of course, that's often just push/fold, but I generally find that the key to winning is to have a good idea of how your opponent thinks about the game. Easiest of all, of course, so long as you're not short, is "doesn't think at all".

[JLimbs]

I read a post on here about two months ago that completely changed my opinion about heads up. I used to think it was mostly about the cards and that it wasn't possible to have a huge edge against another decent player.

This strategy post is by far one of the most in depth and informative pieces I've ever read. Just to give some background, these two guys challenged each other to a 30,000 hand heads up match at 2-4 NL with 5K each sent to a 3rd party to be held in escrow. If one player quit early they would forfeit their 5K in addition to whatever money they lost. One player quit about 17K hands in and this is the winners synopsis of the match, his screen name is 20SuckOutz:

Original Thread

Tx shaun for sending the 10K escrow, and gg easy ... i appreciate the voicemail confirming the forfeit and im sorry i was sleeping.

Im going to finally write a little something up now, I haven't said much at all throughout the whole match on the thread...

After easy's challenge of 30k hands I requested we play 2k more hands , i needed more of a sample before i was about to sink 30 hrs of play into a match. I calculated that my edge would come mainly from the fact that he simply wasnt aggressive enough in position - a flop not continued by him was a pot easily taken by me on the turn with a simple 1/3 bet. Conversely, i predicted that my relentless button aggression should at least prove superior in accumulated fold equity over the course of the sample when compared to his, and I calculated before the match, roughly, that this edge would be about one big blind per 5 hands. By the 10,00 0 hand mark, I was averaging +$0.90 / hand , which is actually pretty close to my original estimate, all other aspects of the match aside. Going into the match I had plotted myself as the favorite by approx $25,000 over 30K hands plus the 5k side bet.

He also had a range of about 300 on the repop PF from the BB, which is too large even for the most seasoned hu players to hold their own. The button enjoys a few different tactics vs. this wide of an OP range that can be used w/ or w/out value in +EV zones...(any bet becomes a winning bet because his value range simply isn't making up a big enough proportion of his preflop range). I utilized a 2.2x raise to his continuation bets in these lines quite often with rags, and always with draws, gaining solid fold equity while simultaneously pricing myself in to a repush at the cheapest possible cost (this is why i rigged the raise at only 2.2x, so when I'm purebluffing on a drawish flop, i can instafold with confidence knowing that I pinned him into having value). the match saw a good deal of flop allins from this sequence, so a lot of variance but def the edge toward me from all of the fold equity I gained.

toward the 10,000 hand mark, he tightened his BB repop range to about 96, a conservative (and winning) range, consisting of AK-AJ and AA-77. I countered w/ my own adjustment of calling with only suited Aces, suited connectors, PP's, and QT paint or better. Earlier, with his wider range, I was calling in with anything and just playing with the fold equity on the flop.

Around this point in the match he evolved into a different player from the BB call PF as well - he was now checkraising the majority of flops lacking the value to do so(something like 2/3 of all flops seen w/ me on the button were being checkraised by him.) Unfortunately, I have put a substantial amount of study into proper checkraise frequency and subsequent positional counters thru means of airfloating and using creative pressure on later streets. A check from him on the turn exposed his purebluff and folded him about 75% of the time, and he never really had the balls to double the turn into me w/ nothing after I called his flop checkraise, so I scraped a lot of equity off that session just by floating around and waiting for him to give up on hands that he was in too deep w/ on the BB.

Lastly, I will post this hand for easy, who at one point requested that I post "every hand that I was outplaying him on" after about the 5,000 hand mark. This is one of my favorites from the match, and it's a concept that even most good players overlook - - in situations where you have significant value, complications to the river force you to disregard that value in exchange for more winning fold equity. This is one of the hands that was labeled by easy as part of my "sick rush" earlier in the thread, around the 2nd or 3rd session:

Full Tilt Poker Game #3548212362: Table Echo (heads up) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:09:27 ET - 2007/09/13
Seat 1: GIFT_4_YOU ($927.75)
Seat 2: 20SUCKOUTZ ($1,511.10)
20SUCKOUTZ posts the small blind of $2
GIFT_4_YOU posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 20SUCKOUTZ [As 6s]
20SUCKOUTZ raises to $12
GIFT_4_YOU raises to $44
20SUCKOUTZ calls $32
*** FLOP *** [7d 3c Ac]
GIFT_4_YOU bets $60
20SUCKOUTZ calls $60
*** TURN *** [7d 3c Ac] [Jc]
GIFT_4_YOU bets $145
20SUCKOUTZ calls $145
*** RIVER *** [7d 3c Ac Jc] [Qc]
GIFT_4_YOU checks
20SUCKOUTZ has 15 seconds left to act
20SUCKOUTZ bets $498
GIFT_4_YOU: aosefhwehfwje
GIFT_4_YOU: i have set
GIFT_4_YOU: of course
GIFT_4_YOU has 15 seconds left to act
GIFT_4_YOU has requested TIME
GIFT_4_YOU folds
Uncalled bet of $498 returned to 20SUCKOUTZ
20SUCKOUTZ mucks
20SUCKOUTZ wins the pot ($497.50)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $498 | Rake $0.50
Board: [7d 3c Ac Jc Qc]
Seat 1: GIFT_4_YOU (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 2: 20SUCKOUTZ (small blind) collected ($497.50), mucked

hehe.

going to the turn here I view my winning chances with a boosted 20% or so in river fold equity to a club, even if he is made to the turn w/ an Ace or better. In fact, he was much better, but his river check allows me to capitalize (any club he'd be holding in his range would be either big enough to bet for value into the river, even if it were 1/3, or small enough to still fold to my push based on the discordance of my sequence -- as if to say, why am I betting into a 4club board when I've represented value already along the way, the Ax nonflush and all 2pairs and sets are simply correct in checking, for values sake, and nothing else. So if he has to take me off such a wide range of hands that wouldn't be full betting this river, but have had value along the way, It basically comes down to how often he thinks I purefloat the whole way here vs. suckout a big flush w/ additional value (something a Kcl or 10cl x hand, where X is whatever makes corresponding value with the T or K, so AxKcl or or KxKcl 10xKcl or 10x10cl for instance, - and that is a really hard number to try to pull out of your ass on the spot, which is why this sequence is so devastating.)


gg and relax on the 50/100 hu easy, u are more composed than that - at least u seem to be.

[rrrorrim]

Wow... changed my mind too.
Great read. Thanks.

[JABoyd]

[ QUOTE ]
How deep can No Limit Heads Up strategy actually go? Is it possible to win consistently at HU ... as much as you could in ring games?

I mean, in HU you're both "in the spotlight," both consciously aware that you're being watched. Even fish put on their thinking hats in HU. There's more effort to be devious.

HU intimidates me because I'm pessimistic and don't believe you can win consistently unless you're incredibly good.
Eh?

Hopefully someone understands me. Cause I don't even know what I'm asking... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I exclusively play HU matches. 90% of the time I play 3 $20 games at a time with a winning % of just over 65%.

HU play is EXTREMELY profitable for me for one very good reason. I know that I am better than the vast majority of my opponents therefore I KNOW most of the time they will make a big mistake before I do. PATICENCE is the key to consistently winning heads up matches...PERIOD!!

And just FYI: With a 5% rake your BEP is 52.5% winning %

[JABoyd]

Also, if you are thinking about playing some heads up games I have a really good EXCEL workbook I wrote to analyze results. Let me know if anyone wants it.

[JABoyd]

Here is a thread I started a few weeks ago. Take it for what its worth...

Heads Up Matches