15/30 Limit Omaha hi/lo Battle Of The Blinds

[grandgnu]

Party Poker
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $15/$30
7 players
Converter

Villian in the SB in this hand is:

VPIP: 33.62
Won$SD: 48.78

Pre-flop: (7 players) HERO is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
5 folds SB completes, HERO checks.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2.47SB, 2 players)
sB checks, HERO checks.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (1.23BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, HERO calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.23BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">HERO ????</font>

Here's my thought process on the hand. He could obviously have any two cards, but so could I. He did not bet the flop, but neither did I.

That may have given him an excuse to fire on the turn, hoping that I had nothing still and he could just take it down.

Now, I'm not crazy about the turn, I pickup a weak pair plus the nut low draw. But there are flush and straight draws I don't have a piece of.

Folding the turn is probably the right play most of the time, for let's forget about that for now. He bet the turn, I called with position.

The river absolutely did not help me. But, did it really help him? If he had a hand on the flop that the King would have helped, wouldn't he have led out into me? I would think so.

Perhaps he picked up a flush/low/straight draw on the turn and decided to fire at it, having outs on the river should I call.

If that's the case, then perhaps I should raise him. Maybe he's only on a pair of Jacks and didn't bet the flop to see what I would do?

So, forget about discussing my action on the turn. What do you do on this river? Just give up? Call and hope the 7's are good, or raise and try and take it away?

[dcasper70]

fold/kick yourself in the nuts for not raising preflop

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
fold/kick yourself in the nuts for not raising preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would I raise this holding heads-up pre-flop? It's not overly strong. If the pot was multi-way, yeah, I'd have raised.

But heads-up, my holding isn't very strong at all, so a raise is typically incorrect.

[dcasper70]

&lt;disclaimer&gt; LL 6-max player &lt;/disclaimer&gt;

He could be calling pf with (almost) any 4.
IMO, with you having position throughout, and his stats not being all that great, a pfr + fcb will tell you pretty much all you need to know.

You have more exp at this level than I do, so I'm wondering...
Had you pfr'd + fcb, would he have bet into you on the turn?
If not, wouldn't you be in the same position on the river with more information?

I still think your 7's are toast, and could have taken a smaller pot earlier on.

[grandgnu]

My holding of A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against the following hands:

6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have 56% equity)

3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I have 56.5% equity)

Those are ideal situations where he has complete rubbish. Let's give him a semi-reasonable hand (especially considering all the folds around to us, it's not implausible that he also has an Ace in his hand)

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (now my equity is down to 46.4%)

Hell, even if he has 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] only gives me a 4% equity advantage over him.

The problem with my holding heads-up is that it's essentially a one-way hand most of the time, and rates to split most pots.

Yes, I have a suited Ace, but I also have three diamonds, reducing my flush possibilities. I have straight possibilities, but all relatively low. I'd much rather dump the 7 in my hand and take a card 10 or higher, then I'm in much better shape on a number of flops.

Still, given the action, you believe a fold on the river is best? Do you believe he actually has something here?

He checked the flop, as did I. Then all of a sudden he leads the turn, which really couldn't have helped him much, unless it gave him a draw. And if it did give him a draw, the offsuit King on the river didn't complete that draw, so he'd be forced to bet with a whiffed draw, to try and take it down (especially since I haven't shown any strength in the hand up until that point)

[dcasper70]

In my 6-max realm, the position/aggression factor plays well here.
IMO, in this type of blind battle, this hand has enough going for it to play it harder than the equity suggests.

Pre-flop: (7 players) HERO is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
5 folds SB completes, HERO raises, SB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
sB checks, HERO bets, SB calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB checks</font>, HERO checks.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">HERO ????</font>

Now you're in the same spot. What do you think this time?

You had 2 shots to take the pot, how many times would you have already won?

I would also have a much easier time raising the river now (read/image dependant), but for me it's just $6 or $8, not the $60 for you. But you can always fall back on the 66% wife paycheck thingy... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to explore other options and let myself get critiqued in the process...

[Split Suit]

I think this is more read dependent than OP is making it out to be. Obviously you must have played this particular villian before, and have probably at least 100+hands with him. so you know how often hes goin to call TP, 2pr...those kinds of things. personally, i like the raise on the river, fold to a 3b. and i like it most because the pot is small. it gives him little reason to call or raise without pretty strong holdings, because if he has a logical through process he has to think "wait...the pot is small, and you want to play a big one all of the sudden. he must have something huge". I believe this play will only work with the pot being so small, and you would have huge bluff equity in this situation. Id do the math for the simple game theory of it, but im lazy right now. just my opinion.

and as for how i would have played it. i raise PF, and CB the flop. given the hand, i fold the turn. ... but nh anyway. im guessin u folded in the real hand?

[donger]

[ QUOTE ]
My holding of A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against the following hands:

6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have 56% equity)

3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I have 56.5% equity)

Those are ideal situations where he has complete rubbish. Let's give him a semi-reasonable hand..

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not about actual equity, it's about momentum and position. Let's say you check your option.. What do you do when he bets the QJ2 flop with 6789? You have to fold. If you raise this preflop, he probably check-folds that flop instead of bluffing at you.

[donger]

re: the actual hand.. I would fold this. The pot is too small to try to bluff raise here and his hand could easily be what he's representing.

Also, why are you only posting VPIP and won@SD? That second stat is so useless.. what about PFR, AF and went to SD?

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
and as for how i would have played it. i raise PF, and CB the flop. given the hand, i fold the turn. ... but nh anyway. im guessin u folded in the real hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't feel my hand was strong enough heads-up to warrant the raise, plus it disguises that I have the Ace in my hand, so depending on what flops, I might get paid off more than if I had raised (i.e. Villian doesn't believe I have the suited A/2 or whatever)

I did not fold, I raised the river, and Villian folded. I figured by his flop check and then turn bet on a card that only really produced potential draws that never hit on the river, that I could get him to fold a better hand than my pair of 7's, and he might not have even had that beat for all I know. So I took it down with the river raise.

Folding the turn is probably the correct play most of the time, given there are two flush draws I don't have a piece of and all I really have is a hopeful low draw with one card to come.