Live MTT, looking for help on how to play the structure

[Scruff]

Live tournament - $75 buy in, 28 players, 4 tables of 7. I'm not sure how they'll consolidate, but I think they'll go to 3 tables at 21, 2 at 16 or 14, and then one final table of 8.

Structure:

T10,000 to start.

Blinds (25 minute rounds)

T100/200
T200/400
T300/600
T400/800
T500/1000
T700/1400
T800/1600
T1000/2000
T1500/3000
T2000/4000
T3000/6000
T4000/8000
T5000/10000

We'll be 5 1/2 hours in at that point (not counting breaks) and they will double after that until we are done.

Any thoughts on tweaks that will be needed for the structure?

Payouts:

$150 comes out of the pot for the winner's buy-in to a championship event at the end of the year. The rest is split as follows.

1-40% = $780 (+ the $150 buyin, so $930 total)
2-25% = $487.50
3-15% = $292.50
4-10% = $195
5-5% = $97.50
6-5% = $97.50

Thanks for any help!

[Scruff]

Bumping this, sorry if that's not allowed . . . if I did something wrong, please let me know so I post correctly next time. Thanks!

[SossMan]

looks like a decent structure...what's your question?

don't bluff into the nuts would be my suggestion.

[Emon96]

Cruddy payout for a starting stack with an M of 33. Within one hour anyone who is card gead will have an M of under 10. I don't see how you can play this tourney too tight early until you get some chips. Loosen up your starting hand ranges a little bit in late position and try to take money from opponents you perceive to be donkeys. Also, pay attention to everyone at your table, even during hands you aren't playing. They say the legs are the most honest part of your body (by "they" I mean FBI experts in body language) so put this theory to the test and see if you can catch people bluffing based on body language. I think the payout is cruddy enough that you should definately try some experimental poker to try to win. I just dont see much point in playing 4-5 hours for any less than first here.

[Scruff]

Thanks Emon.

The legs? Interesting, I'll pay attention - but what exactly would be an example of a 'leg tell'? What would be a leg movement that might indicate strength or weakness?

Or are you just messing with me? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Emon96]

not messing...go back through some of ESPNs poker page archive and you will see some articles about an instructor at Camp Hellmuth. He speaks of lots of non-voluntary human tells.
For example...did you know that whenever you see something that is pleasing to you your eyes dialate. Don't believe me?? Show a friend of yours a picture of a beautiful model and watch his pupils. No show him the 9 of clubs to go along with the two red nines in his hand.

Seriously, these are some good articles that are semi poker related and might help out a live game. The best piece of advise i ever got for live play was to ALWAYS study your oponents even when you arent in a hand.

Good luck and give us a trip report.

[Scruff]

That's great stuff emon, thanks for the help, I'll check out the ESPN stuff . . . and I'll give a report too!

[Scruff]

Hey trip report, in case you were serious Emon.

I had what I thought was a pretty good starting table. I recognized one player from an earlier tourney, others there that knew him told me he was good, but he must have had a bad day last year when I played with him, because I remembered him being very weak. There was one good player, he had won one of the earlier tourneys, but I had him directly to my right, so I wasn't too upset.

I lost almost 1/3 of my stack by the 2nd hand. I had 92 in the BB and got a free look. Blinds 100/200, 10K stacks. I think 4 saw the flop.

Flop comes 92hXh, two hearts (I 9h hearts) (can't remember the X, it wasn't paint). I bet out about 1K, get one call. With the hearts and it being early, I have no problem taking it down. I want the heart draws to pay.

Turn is Jh. I lead out 2K. The other guy is older, maybe 50-60 years old. Most of the people at this tourney are 30 somethings, he's someone's dad. I figure him to be fairly conservative, and if he has a lone heart, I want him to pay. I figure if he has the flush, he'll raise, and I can probably get away. I can't see him bluffing me when I've shown strength, flop/turn. He calls. Now I think I'm in trouble.

River is a blank. It doesn't pair the board, doesn't put the 4th heart out, but I honestly don't remember the specific card. I check here. I don't want to be trapped, and I don't see him going all in. I can pay off a value bet/bluff and still have chips, as we started with 10K.

He goes all in. I go into the tank. He could have a pair with the ace or king of trump, or he could have the flush. Took about a minute and a half before I finally folded the two pair face up. My thinking was if he's bluffing, he deserves it. It's early, and I'm not going to blow the whole tournament on the 2nd hand, I still have plenty to work with (I've played twice before with this group - once I was the chip leader in the middle, but busted out 8th of 21. The other I finished 2nd of 16 - so I know I can play with these guys). I have two weak pair, and a conservative guy is willing to go to the mattresses on the 2nd hand of the tourney.

From there, I went on a good run. The guy directly to my left was a calling station, and was able to win several decent pots from him with marginal hands. Thankfully he put a bad beat on someone else first to get some chips.

After finally busting him, I played a big pot with a fairly conservative player who was two to my left. I'm at around 30K by now leading the tourney. I've been raising my share, not a ton (to me anyway), but they aren't calling. I put one bad beat on a guy, took a bad beat myself which would have given me a huge stack, but I'm doing ok. The bad beat was good, because I showed that I was raising QQ, so it justified my earlier aggressiveness on hands they weren't seeing.

I think blinds are 300-600, could have been 400-800. I get a free look with J6. Flop comes 478. I make a small bet and he calls. I can tell from some earlier things that he thinks I'm running over the table. He's given me the most acion, and is looking to make a stand. Turn brings the magic 5. I know he wants to call me, so I push all in. He calls instantly and flips over A8. Now I'm really in business around 45K.

A pretty big stack got moved to our table. Fortunately, he let me run him over. The table continues folding (even on the hand I had AA in the BB, bummer), I work it up to about 70K (1/4 of all the chips) with about 14 people left (two tables). The older conservative gentleman is the #2 stack, with around 50K and still sitting in the same spot, directly across from me (2 to my left or 3 to my right). I play a decent pot with him where I have to fold (my conservative read from earlier has been confirmed throughout the tournament), so were both in the mid-60s, still 1-2.

We get to the final table of 8, and I have a decent chip lead with about 75-80K. I get direct position on my brother-in-law, who I consider the toughest player there, and he has about 40K. Older conservative big stack has about 60K and he is two to my left.

I only remmeber one hand from the early part of the final table. We're now 6 handed. Brother in law and I both limp, along with one other. He has rare position on me, he was button, I'm SB. I have A6. Flop comes J86. He checks, I bet small (1/2 pot), he calls. I'm done with the hand if I don't hit an Ace or 6. Turn brings the Ace. I check, he goes all-in, and I bust him. He had Jx (can't remember the kicker, wasn't paint).

We play down to 3. I have about 170K, the other two have about 75K and 35K. The one with 80K has been superloose at the final table. He busts the other guy unfortunately, before I can, so we get heads up with 170/110.

A few hands in I find out that he's only played poker a couple of times in his life (he wasn't lying - it explained a lot of what happened at the final table). He was very lucky to be there, having busted another guy in a spot where both were virtually all-in on an insanely bad beat. All of the money goes in on the turn, and he has JJ, the other guy had a set of 3s (and there was a K on the board). Of course he hit the 21:1 two outer to double up.

So I try raising early. He plays weird. He calls almost all of my raises, but folds his button to me at least 60% of the time. I'm thinking on the fly, trying to figure out how to beat someone when I've never been in this situation before (someone folding his button, but calling raises). I figure I'll wait until I hit a flop and then push him.

Problem is, I don't hit any flops. We go round and round. Blinds go from 2K/4K to 3K/6K to 5K/10K. I offer to chop the $293 difference between first and second and just play for the $150 seat. He says nah, let's play for it all. My best shot was when I flopped an open ended straight flush draw and got everything in the middle while I had him covered 180K/100K with 3K/6K blinds. I had 5c6c on a 4c7cJ board. He had AJ. I paired my 5 on the turn, giving me 5 more outs. None of my 20 outs hit the river, and it was back to the dirty work.

A couple of hands later, I doubled up on a bad beat, but I can't remember the hand. I think I hit a flush draw after he called my all in with top pair.

Finally nearly two hours after we started playing heads up, I raise from the button to 35K with AJ (5K/10K blinds). I have him covered 160/120 preflop. Have to make a move soon with the blinds this big and doubling in 5 minutes.

He goes over the top allin. It's 85K back to me, with 155K sitting in the pot. I think for about 5 seconds and call. He's the type that plays any ace to the end. Earlier, I had A7 on a 64J flop. I bluffed all-in, since I'd raised preflop. He thought for two minutes before folding A2. A-freakin-2. Talk about bluffing with the best hand, jeez.

So I call. He's got A-T, yippee!!

Flop 9-7-7. Turn 5. River . . . you guessed it TEN. You could have stuck an icepick in my ear and I would have felt better.

I'm down 240-40. I steal blinds 3 times, puts me around 60K, then get all in with 8-8. He calls with Q-9. Flops a 9 and I'm done.

I've never been more down about winning $400. I went in prepared. I didn't drink. I read Phil Gordon's Green book at work the night before. I stayed focused the whole way and made it within one card. Looking back, I'm happy with how I played, except for heads up.

I'm sure I did some things wrong. I should have been more aggressive earlier in the heads up. I folded too many times, but what can you do when he's calling you down constantly and you miss the flop?

So he picked up $780 and the $150 seat for November. I pocketed $483 and still have pay for the $150 seat unless I win one of these in the next 9 months, so it was almost a $600 swing on that one card. That's poker.

[JoaoPinto]

Hi, well done on the good finish. I just wanted to ask you about the 1st hand you describe above with the 'older gentleman'. I play in a local card room and theres a few retired guys like this who are in nearly every night. They play completely differently to people our age. There's no accounting for pot odds, if they've a straight or flush draw they call you down no matter what. Especially a flush. I think this may stem from them playing for years at seven card and five card stud where you'll often get paid when you hit a flush. "What are you complaining about" I hear someone shout? In a cash game I wouldn't but in a tournament it only takes one of the bastards to hit you once and your dead. And what makes it worse is the attitude. They smile andnchuckle as if the old hand has taught the kid a lesson. It makes my blood boil it really does.

In any case my question is this, what do you do against play like this? Overbetting the flop is my only solution at this point. They only take their stack into account when deciding to call as opposed to the pot. So the only solution is a bet that's a chunk of their stack.

[Scruff]

Out of position, I'll typically bet as much I as I think they'll call in that spot Joao. If the flush card hits, I re-evaluate. If it doesn't I bet more on the turn.

Take that for what it's worth though, I don't play a lot of live poker (though I'll be playing these fairly regularly this year, since I seem to do well there and they are a fun group of guys, even though it's a 90 minute drive).

The other thing, which sounds arrogant, but really isn't is - make sure you have a bigger stack than them. They'll give you their blinds. Take them. Sometimes you need to lay down when the big card hits, unless they've shown they are capable of a big-time bluff. But when they do hit and you are already in, they can't bust you if you have them covered.

I doubled a couple of people up during that tournament, but I always had enough chips that it didn't hurt too bad, because I completely ran my table. It also helped that every time someone new moved to our table he had a decent stack and was one or two to my right. If you've got the chips call them in position when they raise and pound them when you hit the flop. Taking all of those chips gives you the insurance chips you need for when you can't push a guy off a draw and he hits.