15/30 Limit Omaha hi/lo Battle Of The Blinds

[1MoreFish4U]

Ok, there are many hands V could have that beat you that would be worth a value bet/steal attempt on the turn.

How about AT h, 23?
A29T?
9TJQ - check flop because 2 spades appear?
A244?

There are many more that you might want to see a harmless turn card before you bet.

I have made the play you did & had it work. Only you know what the 'feel' of the game was at the time. The only 'bad' plays are ones that lose. Timing is everything.

Just pointing out that there were many ways that V could have had a legit hand that you are not acknowledging.

[grandgnu]

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He could have been trying to check raise the flop, or, the turn card could have given him a bunch of different hands. I wouldn't focus too much on the fact that he didn't bet until the 7 fell.


maybe it could be said like this "how often, regardless of the way a hand is played, is fourth pair alone good enough to win a HU pot in O8"

that's why i gave the reasoning for this being a long term -EV situation.

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Thanks for your take on the situation. He might've been waiting to check-raise the flop, but he didn't seem like the check-raising type, from what I had seen of his play (i.e. I'd expect him to bet that flop with a wrap draw or whatever)

Also, I wasn't expecting my pair to hold up on the river. I felt it might be good. That's why I raised instead of just called. I figured he'd lay down a pair of Jacks and maybe even Queens, so if I was beat, but he wasn't very strong, I could still win the pot.

[Floker]

I agree with Tx's post all the way:

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Raise PF.

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You got a great hand to raise from any position, why not build the pot and make him pay to play with his probable weak hand.

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Bet the flop, usually win, fold to a check raise.

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He shows weakness, you're heads up, just bet. If he is in fact strong and check-raises you, at least you know where you're at and you can fold.

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As played, raise the turn = free showdown.

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True. If you raised he'd probably check to you on the river. He might even fold right now if he was on a conplete bluff.

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As played, fold the river, and three betting is either a genius play against this guy or a tremendous spew. Depends.

-Tex


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3-betting only when you got some great read on this guy, in all other cases, fold.

[grandgnu]

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You got a great hand to raise from any position, why not build the pot and make him pay to play with his probable weak hand.

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My hand is strong in a multi-way pot. Heads-up, my equity expectation against his hand is very unlikely to be a monster favorite against him.

If I'm lucky, I might have a 5-10% advantage over his holding, or I could be only a few % points ahead or behind pre-flop.

[donger]

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You got a great hand to raise from any position, why not build the pot and make him pay to play with his probable weak hand.

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My hand is strong in a multi-way pot. Heads-up, my equity expectation against his hand is very unlikely to be a monster favorite against him.

If I'm lucky, I might have a 5-10% advantage over his holding, or I could be only a few % points ahead or behind pre-flop.

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Well, why are you raising the river with just a pair of sevens? You are a huge equity underdog there. Get the drift?

[Floker]

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You got a great hand to raise from any position, why not build the pot and make him pay to play with his probable weak hand.

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My hand is strong in a multi-way pot. Heads-up, my equity expectation against his hand is very unlikely to be a monster favorite against him.

If I'm lucky, I might have a 5-10% advantage over his holding, or I could be only a few % points ahead or behind pre-flop.

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yeah that's the case with almost any omaha hand pre-flop, but your hand gives more +EV because there's actually play after the flop (no pre-flop all-in) and your hand can get a lot more flops where you can play much more confidently from that point on.

[Scruff]

"I did not fold, I raised the river, and Villian folded. I figured by his flop check and then turn bet on a card that only really produced potential draws that never hit on the river, that I could get him to fold a better hand than my pair of 7's, and he might not have even had that beat for all I know. So I took it down with the river raise."

I agree with all of this - that's why I voted raise too. This play works heads up far more often than I would have realized if I didn't start doing it. It seemed very obvious he picked up flush and/or low draw on the turn, and bluffed the river. The raise bluff on a missed low river works a fair % of the time, the way I see the raise, you are risking 2 bets to win 4.25, and this play will work at least 1 time in 3.

I do agree with those who said you have to raise this preflop heads up to take control of the hand. But as it played out, the river raise was definitely the right play.

EDIT: I would add that I play 5/10 and 10/20 mostly - and this play works better at the higher limits, where people can lay a hand down. This won't work very often in 2/4, for example. The fact that it's a 15/30 hand makes the bluff-raise more of an option here for sure.

[grandgnu]

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You got a great hand to raise from any position, why not build the pot and make him pay to play with his probable weak hand.

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My hand is strong in a multi-way pot. Heads-up, my equity expectation against his hand is very unlikely to be a monster favorite against him.

If I'm lucky, I might have a 5-10% advantage over his holding, or I could be only a few % points ahead or behind pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, why are you raising the river with just a pair of sevens? You are a huge equity underdog there. Get the drift?

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Because Villian:

a. Whiffed on a flush or low draw and will likely fold

b. Will probably lay down a pair of Jacks with a Queen and King on board

c. Might lay down a pair of Queens to me as well

I was raising because I felt he was weak and on a steal and could take it down.

[grandgnu]

Thanks for chiming in scruff. A lot of players on 2+2 seem to play 2/4, so they might not encounter the situations and make the same plays that are made at 10/20 and 15/30.

It's hard to progress on Party from 2/4 and 3/6 to the 10/20 and 15/30 games, since the 5/10 seem so few and far between.

[donger]

I was being sarcastic and trying to help you understand that pure pot equity isn't the only factor in deciding whether or not to raise.