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#21
11-11-2007, 06:42 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps not attempted murder, but surely, Vhawk, you would agree, that a non-smoker should be able to sue a smoker for damages to his health. [/ QUOTE ] He surely believes that the property owner should be able to decide if and where on his property smoking should take place, and non-smokers that are scared for their health will just have to stick to the places where the owner of the property have decided smoking is not allowed. 
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#22
11-11-2007, 08:28 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
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[ QUOTE ] I know it's a nasty habit, etc., etc. but I love smoking and not just for the high of nicotine. It's a gamble and my last vice. I think I'll keep it. [ QUOTE ] Should you smoke around others that do not smoke you should be tried for attempted murder. But if you dont care about yourself why would you care about others? [/ QUOTE ] Certainly you dont mean attempted murder. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps not attempted murder, but surely, Vhawk, you would agree, that a non-smoker should be able to sue a smoker for damages to his health. [/ QUOTE ] Sure, but not attempted murder. Reckless endangerment or something like that I suppose (no expert on law by any means) but attempted murder seems ludicrous.
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#23
11-11-2007, 08:29 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
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[ QUOTE ] well there's a clear legal parallel. things you buy new you have all sort of legal entitlements, like it actually doing what it's supposed to do, and the seller assumes all risk of defective product. things you buy used and marked "as is" or something the buyer assumes all risk of faulty or nonfunctioning product. so if you take the "health consequences of smoking", I would say that by this point in time it's "as is", and the consumer assumes all risk. an argument anyway. [/ QUOTE ] I've read a couple times of health treatment ( surgery?) being denied in britan because the patient was a smoker. Not sure how true or how widespread the notion is. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] This seems INCREDIBLY standard in a socialized health system. Whether it is or not. Similarly, McDonalds.
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#24
11-11-2007, 08:40 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] well there's a clear legal parallel. things you buy new you have all sort of legal entitlements, like it actually doing what it's supposed to do, and the seller assumes all risk of defective product. things you buy used and marked "as is" or something the buyer assumes all risk of faulty or nonfunctioning product. so if you take the "health consequences of smoking", I would say that by this point in time it's "as is", and the consumer assumes all risk. an argument anyway. [/ QUOTE ] I've read a couple times of health treatment ( surgery?) being denied in britan because the patient was a smoker. Not sure how true or how widespread the notion is. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] This seems INCREDIBLY standard in a socialized health system. Whether it is or not. Similarly, McDonalds. [/ QUOTE ] Its incredibly rare in fact but is a popular notion amongst a small group of health nutters. Most support a clinical need based system. Where it does happen its normally the doctor insisting the patient gives up smoking/loses weight before the treatment will be given rather than a refusal to treat in some judgemental fashion. chez
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#26
11-11-2007, 09:19 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] well there's a clear legal parallel. things you buy new you have all sort of legal entitlements, like it actually doing what it's supposed to do, and the seller assumes all risk of defective product. things you buy used and marked "as is" or something the buyer assumes all risk of faulty or nonfunctioning product. so if you take the "health consequences of smoking", I would say that by this point in time it's "as is", and the consumer assumes all risk. an argument anyway. [/ QUOTE ] I've read a couple times of health treatment ( surgery?) being denied in britan because the patient was a smoker. Not sure how true or how widespread the notion is. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] This seems INCREDIBLY standard in a socialized health system. Whether it is or not. Similarly, McDonalds. [/ QUOTE ] Its incredibly rare in fact but is a popular notion amongst a small group of health nutters. Most support a clinical need based system. Where it does happen its normally the doctor insisting the patient gives up smoking/loses weight before the treatment will be given rather than a refusal to treat in some judgemental fashion. chez [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I didnt mean that it does in fact happen all the time, just that there is absolutely no reason why it SHOULDNT in a socialized healthcare system, and I'd imagine that the trend will go that way over time. If the public is picking up the tab for your healthcare, why dont they get to deny you for high-risk choices?
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#27
11-11-2007, 09:20 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
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As long as the smoker is also exempt from taxes, I don't see a problem with that... [/ QUOTE ] Are art-haters exempt from taxes? Or people without kids?
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#28
11-11-2007, 09:29 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] well there's a clear legal parallel. things you buy new you have all sort of legal entitlements, like it actually doing what it's supposed to do, and the seller assumes all risk of defective product. things you buy used and marked "as is" or something the buyer assumes all risk of faulty or nonfunctioning product. so if you take the "health consequences of smoking", I would say that by this point in time it's "as is", and the consumer assumes all risk. an argument anyway. [/ QUOTE ] I've read a couple times of health treatment ( surgery?) being denied in britan because the patient was a smoker. Not sure how true or how widespread the notion is. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] This seems INCREDIBLY standard in a socialized health system. Whether it is or not. Similarly, McDonalds. [/ QUOTE ] Its incredibly rare in fact but is a popular notion amongst a small group of health nutters. Most support a clinical need based system. Where it does happen its normally the doctor insisting the patient gives up smoking/loses weight before the treatment will be given rather than a refusal to treat in some judgemental fashion. chez [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I didnt mean that it does in fact happen all the time, just that there is absolutely no reason why it SHOULDNT in a socialized healthcare system, and I'd imagine that the trend will go that way over time. If the public is picking up the tab for your healthcare, why dont they get to deny you for high-risk choices? [/ QUOTE ] but the huge numbers of high-risk takers are subsidising the rest, lose our support and the health system will collapse - we wont be willing to continue the subsidy if they treat us worse than those we subsidise. We only have the NHS because there is massive public support for the principle of clinical need. chez
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#29
11-11-2007, 09:31 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] well there's a clear legal parallel. things you buy new you have all sort of legal entitlements, like it actually doing what it's supposed to do, and the seller assumes all risk of defective product. things you buy used and marked "as is" or something the buyer assumes all risk of faulty or nonfunctioning product. so if you take the "health consequences of smoking", I would say that by this point in time it's "as is", and the consumer assumes all risk. an argument anyway. [/ QUOTE ] I've read a couple times of health treatment ( surgery?) being denied in britan because the patient was a smoker. Not sure how true or how widespread the notion is. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] This seems INCREDIBLY standard in a socialized health system. Whether it is or not. Similarly, McDonalds. [/ QUOTE ] Its incredibly rare in fact but is a popular notion amongst a small group of health nutters. Most support a clinical need based system. Where it does happen its normally the doctor insisting the patient gives up smoking/loses weight before the treatment will be given rather than a refusal to treat in some judgemental fashion. chez [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I didnt mean that it does in fact happen all the time, just that there is absolutely no reason why it SHOULDNT in a socialized healthcare system, and I'd imagine that the trend will go that way over time. If the public is picking up the tab for your healthcare, why dont they get to deny you for high-risk choices? [/ QUOTE ] but the huge numbers of high-risk takers are subsidising the rest, lose our support and the health system will collapse - we wont be willing to continue the subsidy if they treat us worse than those we subsidise. We only have the NHS because there is massive public support for the principle of clinical need. chez [/ QUOTE ] WTF cares about what you guys want, smokers are still a minority, go [censored] yourselves ya know? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] You make a good point about why they wont deny coverage to fatties though.
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#30
11-11-2007, 09:38 AM
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Re: What Of People Who Start Smoking Now
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Yeah, I didnt mean that it does in fact happen all the time, just that there is absolutely no reason why it SHOULDNT in a socialized healthcare system, and I'd imagine that the trend will go that way over time. If the public is picking up the tab for your healthcare, why dont they get to deny you for high-risk choices? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- but the huge numbers of high-risk takers are subsidising the rest, lose our support and the health system will collapse - we wont be willing to continue the subsidy if they treat us worse than those we subsidise. We only have the NHS because there is massive public support for the principle of clinical need. chez -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WTF cares about what you guys want, smokers are still a minority, go [censored] yourselves ya know? You make a good point about why they wont deny coverage to fatties though. [/ QUOTE ] Fatties, heavy drinkers, smokers, pregant women etc etc. Its the majority, although the health nutters are very vocal they're just a small protest group. The vast majority who support the NHS don't want anybody to pay the right amount - that's the whole point. chez
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