Ask Daliman about casino comps.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome thread. I have a few questions about poker room comps. I'm moving to Vegas soon, but have been playing in AC the past few years.

1. Here in AC almost all rooms offer player's cards and you just clock in and out. I greatly prefer this method. I know that only some do this in Vegas(last WSOP I noticed that the Wynn does, but Bellagio and Rio do not for example). Can you tell me some of the places that do indeed do this.

2. If you're at a place that does not do this then what is the best way to go about getting a comp? Should you ask before or after your session? Should you ask for a specific dollar amount? What percentage of your comp should you tip the floorperson?

3. In AC if you get to the next tier of player's card(Black Label, Platinum Club, etc.) at one casino then you can show your card to any casino and get their version of the next tier card as well. Is that true for Vegas?

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Unfortunately, poker comps aren't my area of expertise, but I'd say for #2, you're better of either asking for the comp after your play, or just ask before how many hours you need for your comp, if they aren't on the hourly system.

[teddyFBI]

Dali, slightly OT, but:

a) What count do you use, and how extreme a spread? When I play BJ, i typically just use a basic hi-lo, and i've never been hassled with a 1-5 spread, although I doubt i'm actually much higher than 50% vs. the house, if at all.

b) Have pit bosses ever raised an eyebrow at your play?

c) You have a host who knows you're a big BJ player...has he ever gotten suspicious that you're an advantage player, and if so, what do u think would be the ramifications?

d) Comps aside, what's the best place in LV for an advantage BJ player -- e.g. most favorable rules, etc. A few years ago, the horseshoe had a single-deck BJ game that paid 2:1 on BJs and dealer stood on soft 17...don't know what the status of games are lately b/c i don't play much BJ anymore.

[MicroBob]

teddy - that HS game was almost certainly some weird BJ variant that must have included some other rule you didn't know about.

some of these games are called Super 21 or Single 21 and stuff like that.

I'm guessing that to make up for the 2:1 BJ payoff that they considered a push to be a loss, or they took all the T's out of the deck like in the Spanish 21 shoe game or something.


The 2:1 blackkjack payoff on a regular single-deck BJ game would give the player an insane advantage even without counting. All of LV would be lined-up for blocks to play this game.
Thus, I'm pretty sure the game must have had some other rule you didn't know about.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Dali, slightly OT, but:

a) What count do you use, and how extreme a spread? When I play BJ, i typically just use a basic hi-lo, and i've never been hassled with a 1-5 spread, although I doubt i'm actually much higher than 50% vs. the house, if at all.

b) Have pit bosses ever raised an eyebrow at your play?

c) You have a host who knows you're a big BJ player...has he ever gotten suspicious that you're an advantage player, and if so, what do u think would be the ramifications?

d) Comps aside, what's the best place in LV for an advantage BJ player -- e.g. most favorable rules, etc. A few years ago, the horseshoe had a single-deck BJ game that paid 2:1 on BJs and dealer stood on soft 17...don't know what the status of games are lately b/c i don't play much BJ anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really not OT at all; Card counting dovetails prefectly with comp counting.

A. I use the Hi-lo count, and I'd say my typical spread is about 1-16, but I have spread as much as 1-33 single spot and 1-36 with 2 spots. I don't understand what "I doubt i'm actually much higher than 50% vs. the house, if at all." means. Do you mean you doubt you're much more than break even? Even if that is the case, you're WAY better off than just the average basic strategy player.

B. Not really. I don't get too crazy until I'm known a bit, and definitely not until I have a few drinks in me, ( which I make look like they are affecting me more than they are.)

C. Hosts, for the most part, in my experience, don't give a rat's ass about whether you are a card counter or not. As long as you are getting play in and not destroying them, they get paid. I would think if you are in good with a host , they will actually go to bat for you if suspicions start being aroused.

D. Way too many variables to tell you for sure. The 2-1 on BJ was at the old horseshoe, and was usually only the week of xmas, and I think it only paid on up to $5 bets or something. The better MGM properties have a DD game that is Stand soft 17 , double after split, which comes to a scant .19% edge vs the BS player.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
The 2-1 on BJ was at the old horseshoe, and was usually only the week of xmas, and I think it only paid on up to $5 bets or something.

[/ QUOTE ]


aha, sepcial promo. that would explain it too.

Still, I know of several people who thought they stumbled onto some amazing games with crazy/awesome rules when they were playing Single 21 or Spanish 21 or something so my theory wasn't an unreasonable one.

Even with a $5 max pay-out on the 2:1 BJ payoff that's a pretty good promo that the HS had and I suspect it must have been pretty darned popular.

[lapoker17]

[ QUOTE ]
C. Hosts, for the most part, in my experience, don't give a rat's ass about whether you are a card counter or not. As long as you are getting play in and not destroying them, they get paid. I would think if you are in good with a host , they will actually go to bat for you if suspicions start being aroused.

[/ QUOTE ]

eh - i actually had a host like abandon me after i won a bunch and some higher ups came down on me - wasn't counting either - just a hot streak!

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
C. Hosts, for the most part, in my experience, don't give a rat's ass about whether you are a card counter or not. As long as you are getting play in and not destroying them, they get paid. I would think if you are in good with a host , they will actually go to bat for you if suspicions start being aroused.

[/ QUOTE ]

eh - i actually had a host like abandon me after i won a bunch and some higher ups came down on me - wasn't counting either - just a hot streak!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, they can go to bat, doesn't mean they'll get a hit.... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[antifish225]

Great thread guys, very helpfuland adds some good perspective.....Here is my Vegas comp situation, looking for some advice:
- Go 2x per year for 3 days
- Generally playing BJ 5-7 hours a day, normal bet between 75-150
- Several (9) years ago on one of my first trips we stumbled into the then Alladin (Planet now) and proceeded to play 20 hours straight of BJ, Host came over and got us rooms (we were not staying there) - had everything covered for the remainder of the trip.
- Kept in touch with the host, several host changes over the last years, however he always hooks me up (just call him, get RFB everytime)

So the dilema is that we are getting tired of the place and are looking for a new hotel to stay at - by no means are we super baller's, however it seems to me that a hotel of the 'Quality' of Alladin appreciates our business allot more than some more popular places on the strip would (ie. it is a mid-tier place, not on the same level as most)....

So - what other hotels should we consider that would value a player like me (ie. comp rooms at least), how should I go about switching hotels?

[fees]

I have a really basic but seemingly fundamental question about comps/free stuff in general:

SSNL/non-MSNL ballers... say we hit AC/LV for weekend-week.. what little tricks/tips can you give us that we are otherwise oblivious to... (gear this towards 18-21 year olds that don't have alot/any casino expierence and have been online players)

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
teddy - that HS game was almost certainly some weird BJ variant that must have included some other rule you didn't know about.

some of these games are called Super 21 or Single 21 and stuff like that.

I'm guessing that to make up for the 2:1 BJ payoff that they considered a push to be a loss, or they took all the T's out of the deck like in the Spanish 21 shoe game or something.


The 2:1 blackkjack payoff on a regular single-deck BJ game would give the player an insane advantage even without counting. All of LV would be lined-up for blocks to play this game.
Thus, I'm pretty sure the game must have had some other rule you didn't know about.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya, i know about superfun-21 and all that stuff, but i'm nearly positive that the rules were quite advantageous, and there wasn't any $5 cap or anything. this would have been in around 2002 or something, so quite a while ago. Not only that, but playing 2-handed, we would actually get dealt 4 hands before a shuffle, and sometimes 5 when playing headsd-up vs. dealer. It was a great game.

Dali: u really risk a 1-16 spread?? wow, i'm shocked -- jumping from 10 bets to 160 seems like it would get you 86'd from anywhere in a few hours. At the HS they had dozens of Polaroid pictures right behind the tables of everyone they'd barred in the last couple years, and little handwritten notes on each saying what the person had done -- e.g. "$5 / $500 spread" -- either as a warning to would-be counters, or a reminder to pit-bosses of who to look for.

I was sitting at the table playing with one other guy once doing my regular 1-5 spread, and pulling off a decent cover, and after a couple shuffles immediately realized the other guy was a counter too, and doing an absolutely TERRIBLE job of concealing it. He'd press his bets when the count was ++, going from $5 bets to upwards of $80, and immediately back to $5 after a shuffle. He also stared at each card that came out of the deck like it had a hidden picture in it he was trying to decipher. Had to leave that table merely for fear that he'd bring heat on both of us.