Online vs Live Play at Micro-Limit

[engineer_mba]

Hi All,

After several months (and many thousand hands), I began playing at a local casino (Bicycle Club) a few weeks ago. I am stil by no means an expert, but I have made several observations that I would love to get feedback on.

Observation #1.
There are some REALLY, REALLY, BAD players live. There have been people who did not even know the hand ranks (ie Full house beats Flush or big full beats small full). At the lower limits, at least half the table obviously doesn't understand the simplest bit of strategy.

Observation #2
There are much less sharks. When I play online, I expect there to be 2-5 good players who can consistently beat the game at any given table. I accept this, and figure I will split the profit from the bad players with them. Live, this is not the case. I have never been at a table where more than 2 people were concurrently, constistently increasing their stacksize for a prolonged period of time. My hypothesis is that online, good players will often multi-table games that are far too easy for them because they can easily turn a profit. Live, this isn't the case since each person is only playing one table. (Any thoughts on this???)


Observation #3
The rake is MUCH higher. Seriously, I was shocked when I first started playing in person. At my local casino in a $1/$2 game, the house rakes $2 and puts $0.50 in a jackpot bonus. IF you tip the dealer $0.50 when you win, you are basically just raking off the blinds every hand. If there are 33 hands dealt per hour, then $100 is leaving the table each hour which is a pretty big deal when total table buy in is $180 (9 players at $20 per person)!


Observation #4
There are many aspects of the live game that I really suck that I did not learn playing online. I am still a rookie at counting chips in the pot, I am still working out my technique for how to look at my cards. I am still not very good at picking up tells, and I am fairly confident that I am giving some off. Additionally, I don't know the house rules behind changing seats or the typical player courtesies. I was really shocked at how much there was going on that I took for granted playing online.



In closing, I would love to hear other people's thoughts on these observations. Have other people noticed any similar or different things when they transitioned to live play? Also, I would love to hear if people think it is easier or harder to earn money playing live? My initial idea is that playing in person the game is easier; however, the per hour earnings would merely be about the same due to other factors including waiting for a table, less hands per hour, and possible travel time.

Cheers,

Leo

[RICHI8]

Pretty normal observations, and rightfully acknowledged. Live play is fun and very, very profitable. But not everyone has the option at their dispense. Live play is pretty much outlined in SSHE and 3/6 live is probably comparable to .25/.5 online.

I recommend saving your money and skipping 1/2 and 2/4 and just go to 3/6. You don't get the pay off you deserve if you are a winning player until 3/6 because the rake is just so damn high, especially after you factor in tips.

[engineer_mba]

Hi,

I think it is funny that you compare the $0.25/$0.5 online game to a live $3/$6.

I have added several hundred dollars to my online bankroll by playing $0.5/$1, I am waiting til I hit $1000 before moving to $1/$2 online.

Anyway, I drove to the local casino to watch live games because I thought it would help my play, and after a half hour I got the itch to try my skills. The cheapest game the had was $1/$2, and I decided just to throw $40 bucks away and try it. I was very nervous to be playin for such high stakes. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I ended up leaving the table a few hours later with a reasonable profit and a wealth of experience.

Cheers,

Leo

[Smurph64]

The guys on the boards talked me out of going to put 200 dollars out of my br and hitting a casino to 'learn' and I don't mind saying I listened to them.

I still plan on making a run at a live game at some point but will wait till I have more than...what did they say.... 15% of your bankroll should never be at risk at a table.

So at 600 bucks now.... 15% is 90 which is 15bb at a 3/6 so half way there.

[Iron Tigran]

if you play a site that regularly has five strong players at every micro table, you need to switch sites. Yes, you can share the fish, but there are much better games to be found.

Try and count bets, rather than the amount of actual $$$ in the pot. After the pre-flop betting is complete, you can multiply the number of players times the number of bets each put in. Do the same thing on the flop, then cut that in half going into 4th and 5th street.

[Smurph64]

I don't multi table online and I play with chips in front of me quite a bit.

Sometimes I put chips into the pot just for myself sometimes I build the pot when I am not in the hand to help my count skills.

Its also a good trick to replay your hands this way because it helps to visualize the flow of the table.

I know, I know another nutsy fagan statement by the irish loon, but it helps me figure out bluffs a lot quicker by doing this.

[Steve00007]

[ QUOTE ]

Try and count bets, rather than the amount of actual $$$ in the pot. After the pre-flop betting is complete, you can multiply the number of players times the number of bets each put in. Do the same thing on the flop, then cut that in half going into 4th and 5th street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes the dealer will make things easier by saying something like "5 players" after the preflop betting is complete. This doesn't always happen though, so I wouldn't rely on it too much.

[bennyhana]

nice post. I've been wondering some things too, like appropriate tip ammounts, cashing out, selling or buying chips, and other dumb little things like that. Also, counting bets. I think I'll just count players, and determine if the pot is close enough to "big" when I play a hand. I doubt I'll have the pot size down right off the bat.

A wise man sent me this link and I found it useful.

[Ignignokt]

Welcome to the world of live poker!

[ QUOTE ]
There are some REALLY, REALLY, BAD players live. There have been people who did not even know the hand ranks (ie Full house beats Flush or big full beats small full). At the lower limits, at least half the table obviously doesn't understand the simplest bit of strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The interesting thing is that many of these bad limit players THINK they're good players - but what they think is "advanced" play consists of coldcalling your PFR with any ace on the assumption that you don't have one (never mind the hopeless odds against them) or with a low pocket pair on the assumption that you have AK.

[johnnytt]

Counting bets is really easy if you just pay attention. It will take a little while to get used to but its not all that hard.

count the bets and not the money and divide it by 2 on the turn and you are good to go.

The problem I have is the paying attention the players are generally so bad that you can beat the game on auto pilot usually.