Little brag with a good lesson

[Richard Tanner]

I know this has been discussed before, but it's worth repeating to anyone that doesn't know.

In the process of rebuilding a roll (never loaning money again [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). Playing mostly 10NL.

Can't use converter so here goes.
Hero (SB) 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ~$10
Villian (BB) ~9.5

Flop 3-3-J
Hero checks, Villian bets .30

Turn 6
Hero checks, Villian bets .55, Hero raises to 1.10, Villian calls

River 3
Hero goes to check then remembers lessons from 2+2 and years of playing "10NL players cannot and will not EVER fold a full house".
Hero reconsiders, shoves, Villian insta-calls, Jacks full no good obviously.

I was going to check/bet pot on the river. I find that the turn minraise (and I hate minraises) usually gets a 1/2-3/4 pot call on the river, it's almost as if Villian is trying to make sure he's not getting bullied. Then on the river, if he got the hand we think he does, and he follows the rules (Full house=nuts no matter what) then a shove is the only correct move.

On the other hand, obviously a shove kills our action from most decent players here (nothing in the pot compared to the bet, minraise on the turn not likely a J, most of us fold right). So was this stricktly a cooler or was this a trip to valuetown because I figured he wouldn't fold.

Also, the turn minraise, good or bad? We're going to have to tip our hand eventually, and the minraise is 99% getting called there. That builds the pot for the river lead (push when the case 3 peels). Should I c/r earlier (I can't see this being good) or just stick to the line of calling the flop, building the turn, valuing the river?

Cody

[Spechel EDD]

id rather not complete that in the SB. if its a rainbow flop id check it. if not id 2/3-full pot flop. turn id valuebet. river id shove.

this is all really player and board texture dependent.

[payoff wizard]

What was the pre-flop action. If this was a raised pot then I hate the slow play on the flop and turn.

[modnareno]

[ QUOTE ]
What was the pre-flop action. If this was a raised pot then I hate the slow play on the flop and turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is obviously a limped pot, the hero has 23o.

I would bet .25, bet .75, and then shove personally, but as long as you shove the river its all fine.

[Richard Tanner]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What was the pre-flop action. If this was a raised pot then I hate the slow play on the flop and turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is obviously a limped pot, the hero has 23o.

I would bet .25, bet .75, and then shove personally, but as long as you shove the river its all fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah sorry, as I said, no converter. Was indeed just myself and the BB. I'm always completing in that spot, not too worried about that .05 (although after this little beaut I guess I'm good for the next ~200 completions).

In any case, bet .25 on the flop? I don't get that part. Only if Villian has a J or is really LAGy (no reads) does the flop bet do anything for us here.

Leading the turn would be fine (though I suspect if we change your flop play, the turn might change as well). I can see leading just as well as c/r after his flop bet.

The river is honestly my biggest concern. Certainly I was able to take advantage of a cooler and get all the moneys, but really, when are we getting folded too here. I can't decide. I've seen plenty of people bluff the flop their and the turn min-reraise is ALWAYS getting called (Villians will almost never fold to a reraise, they'll wait for the river bet so it looks like they didn't get caught). Knowing that this is a possibility (I've been playing for 3-4 years and I view it as such), are we still justified in pushing here?

Edit: Flop was rainbow by the way, not sure why I forgot that little detail, so it was pretty much 92% safe, barring a J).

Cody

[ben wb]

Fold preflop, it's not about the 5c, this hand is just not going to be profitable out of position, any decent player in the big blind would raise you with a lot of hands also. Then bet the flop, you'll get called by any pair, any jack, ace high etc. Then bet the turn too. River push is fine.

[RunDownHouse]

When you limp in, are you calling any decent-sized raise from the BB? If not, did you limp specifically because you didn't expect to see a raise?