KK Indecent turn card

Buckmulligan · #1 06-02-2006, 01:31 PM

SB is a 16/6

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, hero...

Stoo_Pot · #2 06-02-2006, 01:40 PM

Gets a read at showdown [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

MrWookie · #3 06-02-2006, 01:45 PM

I think I call. We may still be best, and worst case, there are 3 more J's that will put you over the top.

Str8Fish · #4 06-02-2006, 01:48 PM

damn donk bet. wtf is up with these people... what happened to c/r? geeez.

ok I call here, wait for a non-spade river and call a bet there... otherwise I fold on the river.

Buckmulligan · #5 06-02-2006, 01:51 PM

Compare and contrast the merits of calling and raising becaues I chose to raise.

MrWookie · #6 06-02-2006, 01:53 PM

Raising gets you no value from hands that you beat, and a lot of the hands that you'd rather not be drawing are now folding. Naked K's are about all you're really concerned about protecting against.

Buckmulligan · #7 06-02-2006, 01:59 PM

really? You aren't worried about protection? if the turn were a blank and the sb fired, wouldn't it be a mandatory raise?

I guess I don't understand that part about hands drawing now folding.

Fantam · #8 06-02-2006, 02:01 PM

If you raise the turn, then I think that you will be 3-bet by your opponent if he has either the straight or a set.

Then you will probably want to call to see if you improve by the river.

If your opponent is donking the turn as a bluff with say AK, then I suppose you will gain a bet assuming he calls your raise.

However, I suspect that there is more chance that you are drawing to beat your opponent, than that he is bluffing.

So I think that calling the turn would be better than raising.

Assuming that you call on the turn, would you call a river bet unimproved ?

Str8Fish · #9 06-02-2006, 02:01 PM

how can you protect if the guy is betting a J? People will call/raise if they have a J in their hand. That's not protecting... that's called donating.

Bonesy · #10 06-02-2006, 02:02 PM

I understand the merits of raising for protection purposes but given SB's stats and the obvious 4 to a straight on the board, I don't see how raising makes much sense. My guess is that SB has a jack and feels you may slow down seeing the 4 to a straight. Even if SB doesn't have a jack, he most likely can beat KK's. I would try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible.