KJs vs LP mcTAG opener - Page 2

whyzze · #11 11-21-2007, 03:56 PM

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The only way he can continue is if he has one of those hands that you are representing.[Axss 3x]

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Had you bet the turn and he called, you could have checked behind on the river J, which I think will be good here quite a bit.

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does not compute.

If he calls with Axss or a 3 - my rivered J is no good.

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the first part is a realistic assessment, but he easily calls with a different draw. lol. Should have mentioned that, I guess im just jaded by the fact that his river bet is a bluff or QQ.

Speedlimits · #12 11-21-2007, 04:12 PM

3bet pf

float the flop.

ajmargarine · #13 11-21-2007, 04:17 PM

3b pre.

If you just call, fold flop. If you don't wanna fold, just float with a call.

That's such a bluffable board to raise with air. What legit hands are you raising there?

Milky · #14 11-21-2007, 04:22 PM

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3bet pf

float the flop.

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Is KJs ahead of opener's raising range? Is it ahead of his 3bet CALLING range? If the answer is no to both of these then you're turning your hand into a bluff, which I suppose isn't that bad. But if it's ahead of his raising range but not his 3bet CALLING range then it makes more sense to call and see a flop IP.

Speedlimits · #15 11-21-2007, 04:31 PM

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3bet pf

float the flop.

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Is KJs ahead of opener's raising range? Is it ahead of his 3bet CALLING range? If the answer is no to both of these then you're turning your hand into a bluff, which I suppose isn't that bad. But if it's ahead of his raising range but not his 3bet CALLING range then it makes more sense to call and see a flop IP.

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yes

debatable, but we have position + aggression.

your argument isn't really applicable here.

ajmargarine · #16 11-21-2007, 04:35 PM

Unless you have QQ+ you are never gonna be ahead of a 3 bettors calling range.

Milky · #17 11-21-2007, 04:36 PM

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Unless you have QQ+ you are never gonna be ahead of a 3 bettors calling range.

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You'd be surprised.

Wait, are you saying a 3better who calls a 4bet? Or someone raises, gets 3bet and calls the 3bet? Cuz the latter is what I'm talking about.

Milky · #18 11-21-2007, 04:44 PM

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yes

debatable, but we have position + aggression.

your argument isn't really applicable here.

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I'm not really sure how it isn't applicable here... Care to elaborate? (I'm just learning all this stuff myself so this is good for me).

ajmargarine · #19 11-21-2007, 04:45 PM

I am saying the latter. And it really doesn't matter because I don't think your argument has much merit. Position and initiative trump "calling range" and the much overused "turning your hand into a bluff"

Profish2285 · #20 11-21-2007, 04:50 PM

Sorry to side track here but: Thats a pretty interesting point aj. If QQ+ are pretty much the only hands that are ahead of a 3 bet range then why do we do it at all with weaker hands other than to get pf folds? Does initiative make up that much of a difference? May sound noobish but Im really curious.