Overcard play: Do you call this flop?

Bullitos · #1 12-04-2006, 07:32 AM

Table is 5-handed, pretty loose/passive. 3bets weren't that common, so we have to respect it a bit.
Do you raise this also preflop and do you call this flop or not?

Hero [Jd, Kc]

*** Bet Round 1 ***
Hero Raise to 8.00
CO Raise to 12.00
BTN Call 12.00
SB Fold
BB Fold
Hero Call 12.00
*** Flop(Board): *** : [6h, 2d, 10c]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
Hero Check
CO Bet 4.00
BTN Call 4.00
Hero ???

Flintoff · #2 12-04-2006, 08:16 AM

usually i don't, but I will if I am even slightly tilting.

Bullitos · #3 12-04-2006, 08:19 AM

Note that the pot is pretty big at this time.

AdamL · #4 12-04-2006, 08:21 AM

I think you can fold based on your descriptions.

Flintoff · #5 12-04-2006, 08:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Note that the pot is pretty big at this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't call that pretty big.

AdamL · #6 12-04-2006, 08:58 AM

12.5 to 1 is fine if he has 3 solid outs, so he's got a point in that respect, but the reads are what we have to go on here and the pot needs to be on the order of 16 bets to make a peel automatic here.

AC Jeff · #7 12-04-2006, 09:07 AM

That button cold call would have me folding here.

AdamL · #8 12-04-2006, 09:09 AM

I don't know, AQ is not really interfering with us much [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

jstill · #9 12-04-2006, 11:33 AM

definite raise preflop without question.

id peel if the game was aggro and 3bets were common (the cold call from button raises an eyebrow however).

just as far as odds go yeah we need 3 outs, if dominated by QQ JJ AK AJ from either we have roughly 4-5 outs basically with the bd flush and straight draws, closing the action this scenerio is probably a call, but based on ur description of them not 3betting often Im somewhat dissuaded. U also dont have position so if u pair up and its good a bet may not go in, but its closer to a call and reevaluate on the turn than I think some are making it out to be. ur implied odds while not great arent neccessarily reverse implied odds just because of the bd flush and str draws.

summary i peel despite description of table play, in another game where 3bets are light and cold caller is in the blind (and cold calls in blind are somewhat frequent) I definately do.

jstill · #10 12-04-2006, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Note that the pot is pretty big at this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't call that pretty big.

[/ QUOTE ]

12.5 sbs on the flop isnt pretty big? those are some big odds to call in my book