NL 200: Combo value bet/bluff good idea or spew?

billzfan86 · #1 08-15-2007, 06:33 PM

Prolly the most interesting hand ive played all year although it wasnt for a full stack, the river play was very interesting and ide like to see peoples thoughts on it, the villian is a good regular (btw it is my first day mixing in NL 200 with NL 100 so I dont have huge history with the villain but today we got into it a lot with light 3 betting and calling preflop) hes 21/14/2.5 after 250 hands, and im playin 16/11/3.5 at my tables

So on flop I was checking behind to get him to lead most turns and i would raise 90% of turn cards but a bad card came so i flat for pot control eventhough I think im head here 75% of the time. he leads river and I just have a feeling he doesnt have the straight but has soemthing hes trying to get value out of so I raise a weird amount to try and get a call from weaker hands or a fold from stronger hands (kinda hard to explain but ive seen some ducussion on it in the high stakes forum) I think versus most villains this is just straight spew but this villain is good and aggro imo and he view mes the same

thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($206.20)
UTG+1 ($113.20)
MP1 ($153.05)
Hero ($201.50)
MP3 ($231)
CO ($270.30)
Button ($214.70)
SB ($300.85)
BB ($207.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 3 folds, SB calls $7, 1 fold, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: ($20) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($20) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $10, Hero calls $10.

River: ($40) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $25, Hero raises to $85,

will post results after some response

Renton · #2 08-15-2007, 06:56 PM

preflop raise sucks

just call river, you have the best hand.

AlexB182 · #3 08-15-2007, 07:20 PM

I don't think you're bluffing here, but raising the best hand...Other points I agree with Renton.

solvine · #4 08-15-2007, 07:42 PM

i agree flat call here

leatangclan · #5 08-15-2007, 08:04 PM

I'm trying to figure out what can villan could possibly called with. Since he is a good regular, so he knows he will be oop after the call. According to the gap theory, he had to be calling with QQ+, AK, even 88-99. I can't see him calling with AQ or AJ suited. I guess anything is possible, but I just can't see that.

So let's say he was afraid to bet the flop with AA or KK because of the possible straight. Ironically the two best starting hands are the ones you beat. Everything else he beats you. So I'm not sure you actually won.

Thrahl · #6 08-15-2007, 09:45 PM

I think the river raise is bad. And I bet the flop.

Kos13 · #7 08-15-2007, 11:44 PM

I don't understand your river raise at all. The only hand that calls is a straight. Smooth call the river and win.

billzfan86 · #8 08-16-2007, 12:41 AM

the river raise is because it makes him put me on a bluff or a straight, so that way if he decides i have 9 he will fold better hands, and if he put me on a bluff he will call light in which case my 2 pair is good,

here are the results:

*** RIVER *** [Jc Th Qd 8h] [3s]
lionel876: bets $25
jared_jon is sitting out
billzfan86: raises $60 to $85
lionel876: calls $60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
billzfan86: shows [8c Qc] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
lionel876: mucks hand
billzfan86 collected $207 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $210 | Rake $3
Board [Jc Th Qd 8h 3s]
Seat 1: Tixmaster folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: jimbet folded before Flop
Seat 3: lobo54 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: billzfan86 showed [8c Qc] and won ($207) with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 5: Mr.smith12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jared_jon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Beyonder01 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: lionel876 (small blind) mucked [Jd Td]
Seat 9: TehBluffman (big blind) folded before Flop

Mr_Donktastic · #9 08-16-2007, 12:43 AM

I don't like any of it really.

Kos13 · #10 08-16-2007, 12:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the river raise is because it makes him put me on a bluff or a straight, so that way if he decides i have 9 he will fold better hands, and if he put me on a bluff he will call light in which case my 2 pair is good,

here are the results:

*** RIVER *** [Jc Th Qd 8h] [3s]
lionel876: bets $25
jared_jon is sitting out
billzfan86: raises $60 to $85
lionel876: calls $60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
billzfan86: shows [8c Qc] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
lionel876: mucks hand
billzfan86 collected $207 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $210 | Rake $3
Board [Jc Th Qd 8h 3s]
Seat 1: Tixmaster folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: jimbet folded before Flop
Seat 3: lobo54 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: billzfan86 showed [8c Qc] and won ($207) with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 5: Mr.smith12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jared_jon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Beyonder01 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: lionel876 (small blind) mucked [Jd Td]
Seat 9: TehBluffman (big blind) folded before Flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I still disagree with this...it looks like results-oriented thinking to me. Unless you have an amazing image or some insane read on the guy, the raise seems really poor to me.