the limp reraise

PokerBob · #1 06-20-2006, 05:49 AM

i am sexy, so occasionally i do some things that are sexy. there were some spazztards in this game, so i thought i'd teach them a lesson. SB is not a spazz from what i have seen. he is 22/6 in 50 hands.

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, CO raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (15SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero caps, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (14.5BB, 3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (20.5BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

what don't you like?

stonescar · #2 06-20-2006, 05:56 AM

I'd have a hard time laying this hand on river, to one bet in a huge pot. How aggressive is SB postflop? Does the river change anything? What are you putting him on, here?

Not sure I like preflop. If you had raised - had they all coldcalled? Limp-reraise traps so many players preflop, and I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

PokerBob · #3 06-20-2006, 06:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have a hard time laying this hand on river, to one bet in a huge pot. How aggressive is SB postflop? Does the river change anything? What are you putting him on, here?

Not sure I like preflop. If you had raised - had they all coldcalled? Limp-reraise traps so many players preflop, and I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

i will play KK for lots of bets with lots of players in any seat you like.

edit: and "no", the river didn't change anything, which means my hand didn't improve and i am cooked.

Ineedaride2 · #4 06-20-2006, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have a hard time laying this hand on river, to one bet in a huge pot. How aggressive is SB postflop? Does the river change anything? What are you putting him on, here?

Not sure I like preflop. If you had raised - had they all coldcalled? Limp-reraise traps so many players preflop, and I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

i will play KK for lots of bets with lots of players in any seat you like.

edit: and "no", the river didn't change anything, which means my hand didn't improve and i am cooked.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to fold the river UI, wouldn't it be best to just fold to the turn raise? I can't see us having odds to draw to 2 outs if we know we're beat on the turn, unless we're considering any two pair as partial outs.

Or unless that ace really DOES change things for us.

cnfuzzd · #5 06-20-2006, 06:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I like preflop. If you had raised - had they all coldcalled? Limp-reraise traps so many players preflop, and I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are lots of reasons not to limp rr. this is not one of them.

peace

john nickle

DING-DONG YO · #6 06-20-2006, 11:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I like preflop. If you had raised - had they all coldcalled? Limp-reraise traps so many players preflop, and I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are lots of reasons not to limp rr. this is not one of them.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? I think that is precisely the reason not to LRR. I hate LRR for exactl that.

And I don't fold this getting 20:1 on the river. Pot is just too big. Is he betting a worse hand 1 time in 20?

EgoSlasher · #7 06-20-2006, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I like preflop. If you had raised - had they all coldcalled? Limp-reraise traps so many players preflop, and I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are lots of reasons not to limp rr. this is not one of them.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? I think that is precisely the reason not to LRR. I hate LRR for exactl that.

And I don't fold this getting 20:1 on the river. Pot is just too big. Is he betting a worse hand 1 time in 20?

[/ QUOTE ]

KK still has a big enough equity advantage vs 3-4 players that putting in as many bets as you can OOP pf is still the right play. That's why it's not a reason to not LRR.

stonescar · #8 06-20-2006, 11:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]

KK still has a big enough equity advantage vs 3-4 players that putting in as many bets as you can OOP pf is still the right play. That's why it's not a reason to not LRR.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the preflop equity diminished pretty much in a 4-6 way pot because it's very easy to put in a lot of bets when you're behind, especially OOP.

Anyways, this is the third post telling me this is NOT one of the reasons not to LRR preflop, without even hinting towards what would be a valid reason.

I can accept the fact that I'm horribly wrong, but still I'd appreciate an explanation...

DavidC · #9 06-20-2006, 08:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I like preflop... I don't like to play KK oop in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're reading SSHE, which is cool. Take another look at the section where it discusses the different starting hands.

stonescar · #10 06-21-2006, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You're reading SSHE, which is cool. Take another look at the section where it discusses the different starting hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that you're all better than me, and I value your opinons, explanations and even the not-so-friendly attempts at telling me when I'm wrong.

I would hope to expect one thing in return.
That you at least try to understand my posts in a good sense. If you would bother to read the later posts, instead of just berating a snip of my first post, you would understand that I'm not talking about throwing this hand away, which you seem to imply.

I was humbly uttering my confusion as to whether the LRR was in fact more profitable than a Raise. I don't think that's a stupid and obvious question, so please don't treat me like I'm the biggest idiot in the world for asking it.

Dendrite gave me an answer to that, and I have no problem admitting that I might have been way off, but I would still like to understand the maths behind this, as I don't see it as an obvious EV+ move.

EDIT:
By "I'd hate to play KK OOP multiway" I obviously mean that I think it's difficult to play correct postflop. The fact that the OP was posted implies that I'm not the only one. I try to avoid difficult decisions postflop, because they might lose me more money than I would gain by putting myself in those situations.