OT: Friends don't let friends play limit

[James.]

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When guys like Barry Tanenbaum tell me an avg winrate for 1/2NL is $17/hr, I believe him. He's EF Hutton. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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yeah, i believe an average winrate for 1/2 might be $17/hr. my point was i think it's easier to be above "average" in NL than limit given the good player:sucky player ratio right now.

that said, i don't think i have a big enough sample to draw any conclusions from my own results, and i think that's what i'm doing. so like you, i'm going with BT on this one as his information is probably better/more relevant than mine.

[Clarkmeister]

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James, not to imply you aren't good or you don't have enough stats, etc. It's just that a true winrate takes a long time to be accurate, I guess, and most people haven't played as many hours at no limit as guys have played at limit. Maybe Doyle, but not a lot of others.

When guys like Barry Tanenbaum tell me an avg winrate for 1/2NL is $17/hr, I believe him. He's EF Hutton. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Well, he's either wrong about the $17/hour or he's wrong about the fish losing too fast and NL will eventually die. The two statements don't make sense together.

[futuredoc85]

i accidentally clicked on this forum, but this is interesting so w/e. last time i was in Vegas, i played 8/16 and 16/32 while waiting for a seat at 2/5NL at the bellagio. I have 0 limit experience but figured i was better than the avg live player by a long shot. both those games were so bad i dont think you have to worry about LHE dying, esp live, because tourists whose wives only let them have so much to play with, people who have never played before and think limit is less complicated, etc. will always play it. Fish at NL are usually either very rich businessmen at high limits or pepole who think they are good but arent at low limits. both games are insanely beatable but i think a good NL players edge is going to be significantly bigger than a good LHE players edge and a huge fish at NL is worth more $/hr than a huge fish at limit. i really dont think NL fish will go broke either because they arent professional gamblers, they are tourist blowing spending money.

[Joe Tall]

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James, not to imply you aren't good or you don't have enough stats, etc. It's just that a true winrate takes a long time to be accurate, I guess, and most people haven't played as many hours at no limit as guys have played at limit. Maybe Doyle, but not a lot of others.

When guys like Barry Tanenbaum tell me an avg winrate for 1/2NL is $17/hr, I believe him. He's EF Hutton. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Well, he's either wrong about the $17/hour or he's wrong about the fish losing too fast and NL will eventually die. The two statements don't make sense together.

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Dave,

I don't know the structures of Las Vegas and California NL Cash games but at Foxwoods, they take $5 drop devery half hour at the 1/2 $100 max, buy-in every hour!!! (10 handed back East)

How could it ever last!?!

-Joe

[Clarkmeister]

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James, not to imply you aren't good or you don't have enough stats, etc. It's just that a true winrate takes a long time to be accurate, I guess, and most people haven't played as many hours at no limit as guys have played at limit. Maybe Doyle, but not a lot of others.

When guys like Barry Tanenbaum tell me an avg winrate for 1/2NL is $17/hr, I believe him. He's EF Hutton. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he's either wrong about the $17/hour or he's wrong about the fish losing too fast and NL will eventually die. The two statements don't make sense together.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave,

I don't know the structures of Las Vegas and California NL Cash games but at Foxwoods, they take $5 drop devery half hour at the 1/2 $100 max, buy-in every hour!!! (10 handed back East)

How could it ever last!?!

-Joe

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So it's basically dropping $90-$100/hr. Or, about the same as a 3/6 or 4/8 game. What's the big deal?

[Joe Tall]

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So it's basically dropping $90-$100/hr. Or, about the same as a 3/6 or 4/8 game. What's the big deal?

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I guess they do get than don't they. What are the NL rake structures in Vegas for the baby NL games?

[Cactus Jack]

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So it's basically dropping $90-$100/hr. Or, about the same as a 3/6 or 4/8 game. What's the big deal?

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I guess they do get than don't they. What are the NL rake structures in Vegas for the baby NL games?

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10% up to $4, with a $1 jackpot drop in some places.

[Clarkmeister]

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So it's basically dropping $90-$100/hr. Or, about the same as a 3/6 or 4/8 game. What's the big deal?

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I guess they do get than don't they. What are the NL rake structures in Vegas for the baby NL games?

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I think the city is uniformly on a rake basis. Game structures range from $100 buy-in all the way to uncapped.

That is a big part of why I simply don't see the longevity issues. The money coming off the table due to rake and winning players doesn't seem to be significantly greater. Now, all poker will diminish inevitably from today simply as TV popularity and the fad continue to die down. Plus, games of all limits and types will get tougher as the suddenly large pool of skilled players starts to be forced into smaller and smaller games as a result of fewer transient players (it is my understanding this has already happened online). But neither of those things inevitably occurring necessarily have anything at all to do with NL as a game structure.

But I think NL is here to stay as the game of choice in jurisdictions where it's allowed. People seem to prefer it by a pretty big margin, and I just don't see any real merit to the "everyone's gonna go broke and NL will evaporate" arguments, partly for the reasons listed above with respect to $ coming "off the table".

[mikech]

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I don't like getting stacked by the same people who may suck out on me for 2 or 3 BBs.

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Limit gives [suckers] a chance of winning enough times to encourage them to play. No limit doesn't. They can't win often enough to overcome the disaster of losing their entire stack.

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umm...ok

[hazillow]

I play limit because that's where I make the most money. I also don't have the mental or emotional patience to watch my entire stack get shipped across the table because someone spiked their two outer on the river. Plus, NL is illegal in MN.