Slots in Vegas looser during the week?

[AndysDaddy]

In another thread, fishyak made this observation:

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Trish & I have noticed that slots payout is a lot looser M-Th. than Fri-Sun. Call it soak the tourist or attract the local yokel mid-week, the result is the same. My wife doesn't win as much during the weekend trips and you don't see others winning at slots as well. Any confirmations or denials?

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Is this true? I'm sure its possible, but is it practical? How easy/hard/labor intensive is it to alter the payout rate for one machine, or a group of machines, or all machines?

Just wondering...

[Clarkmeister]

It is definitely not true.

[bav]

Definitely?

I've noticed payouts at some VP machines are changing almost daily. Do they have these things networked now so they can update such info from a central system without having to individually tinker with machines? If so, doing daily updates of slot payout odds would be trivial. Whether they'd bother doing that or not, I don't know.

But mostly, no player can tell from a four-day visit whether the slots are looser unless it's a BIG change. The difference between 97% and 95% will get lost in the variance. Random gambler's tales of when and where the slots are loose should be ignored.

[rgold79]

From Wikipedia:

Payout percentage
Slot machines are typically programmed to pay out as winnings between 82 to 98 percent of the money that is wagered by players. This is known as the "theoretical payout percentage". The minimum theoretical payout percentage varies among jurisdictions and is typically established by law or regulation. For example, the minimum payout percentage in Nevada is 75 percent and in New Jersey is 83 percent. The winning patterns on slot machines, the amounts they pay, and the frequency at which they appear are carefully selected to yield a certain percentage of the cost of play to the "house" (the operator of the slot machine), while returning the rest to the player during play. Suppose that a certain slot machine costs $1 per spin. It can be calculated that over a sufficiently long period, such as 1,000,000 spins, that the machine will return an average of $950,000 to its players, who have inserted $1,000,000 during that time. In this (simplified) example, the slot machine is said to pay out 95%. The operator keeps the remaining $50,000. Within some EGM-development organizations this concept is referred to simply as "par". "Par" also manifests itself to gamblers as promotional techiniques: "Our 'Loose Slots' have a 93% Pay-back! Play now!" As an aside, the "Loose Slots" actually may describe an anonymous machine in a particular bank of EGMS.

A slot machine's theoretical payout percentage is set at the factory when the software is written. Changing the payout percentages after a slot machine has been placed on the gaming floor requires a physical swap of the software, which is usually stored on an EPROM but may be downloaded to Non-Volatile Random Access Memory (NVRAM) or even stored on CD-ROM or DVD depending on the technological capabilities of the machine and the regulations of the jurisdiction. Based on current technology, this is a time consuming process and as such is done infrequently. In certain jurisdictions, such as New Jersey, the EPROM is sealed with a tamper-evident seal and can only be changed in the presence of Gaming Control Board officials. Other jurisdictions, including Nevada, randomly audit slot machines to ensure that they contain only approved software.

In many markets where central monitoring and control systems are used to link machines for auditing and security purposes, usually in wide area networks of multiple venues and thousands of machines, player return must usually be changed from a central computer rather than at each individual machine. A range of percentages are preprogrammed into the game software and selected by configuring the machine remotely.

In 2006, the Nevada Gaming Commission began working with Las Vegas casinos on technology that would allow the casino's slot manager to change the game, the odds, and the payouts remotely via a computer. The change cannot be done instantaneously, but only after the selected machine has been idle for at least four minutes. After the change is made, the machine must be locked to new players for four minutes and display an on-screen message informing potential players that a change is being made.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine

[fishyak]

Here is our admittedly anecdotal evidence. We take quarterly trips to LV/yr. My wife hits the cheap slots HARD, 8 hrs+/day. She does not drink alcohol while gambling. She is an attorney with a different states Attorney General office. (So we are talking attentive to details.)

Her results alone don't mean much. But she watches closely what goes on around her and not just her payouts (which we keep track of) but the payouts around her have been, different enough between weekend and mid-week to get her attention.

We do know that slots are tracked and linked by computer or else how could the casino (actually Players Club linking MULTIPLE casinos) produce a TO THE PENNY tax statement from multiple sessions, casinos, dates, machines.

I am betting the casinos do alter their payouts to bring in locals during the week and then dial it down when they know they have a captured crowd. The combined results fit the "published" average payouts. I do not think it is done with any screw the tourist malice. I know that marketing rules the universe, particularly the gambling universe and any edge to bring in extra customers in slack times mid-week is found money.

Just a theory...

[bav]

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In 2006, the Nevada Gaming Commission began working with Las Vegas casinos on technology that would allow the casino's slot manager to change the game, the odds, and the payouts remotely via a computer.

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That sounds about right. A couple years ago I rarely saw VP payouts change. A given bank of machines would be the same for weeks and months. Now, every weekend they seem to be different.

[fishyak]

And about 4pm Friday afternoon the machine my wife was on and its whole row went down for about 5 minutes and then they all came back online together. Just one row of machines at the MGM. Just an observation...

[bav]

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And about 4pm Friday afternoon the machine my wife was on and its whole row went down for about 5 minutes and then they all came back online together. Just one row of machines at the MGM. Just an observation...

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Guess that's one way to make them idle for >= 4 minutes before changing 'em.

[Metamorphatory]

Not sure if it is being done yet, but I have been personally shown a demonstration of this system: Link and how it will work.

Quote: "Another new feature of Aristocrat's OASIS(TM) system that will be on display
at G2E is BlackBart PRIME(TM) with Multi-Game Analyzer PRIME(TM). This advanced
online accounting system, developed with Aristocrat's PRIME(TM) applications
utilizing the next-generation Microsoft(R).NET development framework, features
Aristocrat's new Multi-Game Analyzer functionality. This functionality allows
casinos to easily manage and monitor multi-game product performance and adjust
the theoretical hold percentage accordingly ."

They will also be able to adjust the game, lines played and denomination in addition to the RTP %



It is no different to a casino altering the minimums on table games once its gets busy.

[CORed]

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It is no different to a casino altering the minimums on table games once its gets busy.

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Actually, it's more like changing the rules (e.g changing a blackjack game from S17 to H17) when it gets busy. It's not really dishonest, but it does highlight the thing I hate most about slots, which is the "pig in a poke" nature of the games. With table games and video poker, you can at least calculate the house advantage and stay away if you don't think the entertainment value of the game is worth the money you expect to lose. With slots, there is no way of knowing hour big the house edge is. The new technology allowing them to change machines at will makes it a little worse, as you can't count on a "loose" machine being "loose" the next time you play it.

Oh well, slots are for suckers anyway.