New SH-player seeking multiple advise

Sm@rties · #1 11-11-2006, 10:00 AM

About me: I have been playing full ring games for a little more than 1½ years and have been a pretty decent winning player. About 3 weeks ago I decided to start out on my SH experience. I read some posts around here and started playing with close attention to this preflop strategy: Chart_version2. I started playing 0.5/1 but after about 500 hands I went to 1/2. After 3000+ hands at 1/2 with a BB/100 of about 5+ I went to 2/4. I know my relatively high win rate on 1/2 could very much be due to a good run, but I didn't want to spend too much time there if I could go to 2/4 and still be a winner. BUT my 2/4 experience is not good at the moment. Maybe it is bad luck but when I think of it I really think I need much improvement on my HU play and probably in a lot other circumstances.
My stats on 1/2 are (3100 hands):
VP$IP / PFR / Total AF / W$WSF / WTSD / W$SD / BB per 100
22.2 / 15.6 / 2.4 / 43.0 / 38.2 / 55.0 / 5.1
and
VP$SB / Fold SB to steal / Fold BB to steal / Att. to steal
31.5 / 91.4 / 53.4 / 36.4

My stats on 2/4 are (7900 hands):
25.9 / 17.2 / 2.4 / 39.3 / 35.4 / 52.0 / -0.72
and
40.2 / 86.7 / 54.3 / 34.6

Yesterday I was actually fighting my way up on a positive BB/100 on 2/4 but then I had a bad run and lost about $300. I'm worried that I'm actually a loosing player. However, it is my intention to start posting a lot to get your valuable feedback.

The following hands are actually from a very short (32 hands) 1/2 session I played this morning. I think they illustrate some of my problems. I will be looking into my 2/4 sessions to find hands that I have trouble playing but in the meantime I would very much appreciate your feedback.

The hands:
The player in hands 2-4 that I'm against was about 69/7/2.71 but only in 14-20 hands, so my impression of him was pretty much a LAG!

Hand 1 
Prima Poker skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $95.79
UTG+1: $79.65
CO: $100.00
Button: $17.46
Hero: $96.38
BB: $237.44

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, CO folds, Hero calls (8.5:1).

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: 4.75BB

Hand 2 
Prima Poker skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $92.54
UTG+1: $15.21
Hero: $96.00
Button: $252.44
SB: $97.67
BB: $68.40

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7SB, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls (5.5:1).

Results:
Final pot: 6.5BB

 Hand 3 
Prima Poker skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $69.40
UTG+1: $92.54
CO: $12.59
Hero: $100.00
SB: $252.44
BB: $92.92

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls (7.5:1).

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: 4.25BB

Hand 4 
Prima Poker skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $103.29
CO: $80.65
Button: $13.71
Hero: $91.88
BB: $238.94

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls (2.5:0.5), BB checks.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls (5.5:1).

Results:
Final pot: 6.5BB

Peter Harris · #2 11-11-2006, 10:26 AM

your 2/4 stats look ok but 8k hands isn't really converging yet, basically it looks fine.

Hand 1 standard

Hand 2 i bet the turn, fold to a c/r. checking the turn and folding the river is fine i suppose, but calling it is heinous.

Hand 3 fine

Hand 4 i call there, you may see a badly played K or the rivered flush but there's enough donks out there to c/c here and make it viable.

Yes 5BB/100 at 1/2 was a good run.

razyn_kayn · #3 11-11-2006, 11:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
your 2/4 stats look ok but 8k hands isn't really converging yet, basically it looks fine.

Hand 1 standard

Hand 2 i bet the turn, fold to a c/r. checking the turn and folding the river is fine i suppose, but calling it is heinous.

Hand 3 fine

Hand 4 i call there, you may see a badly played K or the rivered flush but there's enough donks out there to c/c here and make it viable.

Yes 5BB/100 at 1/2 was a good run.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree on all points.

Trivial · #4 11-11-2006, 12:54 PM

You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop.

Scary_Tiger · #5 11-11-2006, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do this.

The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most.

The Q9 hand where you check/called on the river when the flush hit, you should be bet/folding versus most and bet/calling versus maniacs. Basically every better hand bets when you check and Villains that understand what your line means won't bluff into you. If they have an A, a 2 or 4 they'll happily see a free showdown, so you should definitely bet.

poisonxfree · #6 11-11-2006, 01:29 PM

Hand 1: Standard

Hand 2: I probably bet the turn here since draws are coming in. If the draw misses I'm more likely to check the turn to induce a bluff on the river from a missed draw.

Hand 3: Standard

Hand 4: Bet/fold. I think you said this is against that 60/7/2.7 guy or whatever so I might b/c if he's been pretty aggro lately.

Bullitos · #7 11-11-2006, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do this.

The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most.

The Q9 hand where you check/called on the river when the flush hit, you should be bet/folding versus most and bet/calling versus maniacs. Basically every better hand bets when you check and Villains that understand what your line means won't bluff into you. If they have an A, a 2 or 4 they'll happily see a free showdown, so you should definitely bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was thinking, hand 2 isn't a clear turn bet and hand 4 is bet/fold river.

Mossberg · #8 11-11-2006, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do this.

The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most.

The Q9 hand where you check/called on the river when the flush hit, you should be bet/folding versus most and bet/calling versus maniacs. Basically every better hand bets when you check and Villains that understand what your line means won't bluff into you. If they have an A, a 2 or 4 they'll happily see a free showdown, so you should definitely bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word up. Good post.

BlueLaser · #9 11-11-2006, 05:49 PM

Scary,

[ QUOTE ]

The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really understand this. Here I would mix up my line with about 50% bet turn/check river, 30% check turn, fold river, 20% check turn, call a river bet, mostly depending on my opponent. I think there is significant benefit to betting the turn: A lot of worse hands with a flush draw will call a bet on the turn, folding to a checkraise on the turn won't be that hard, and you can get a fair number of better hands to fold eg: KQ, some Aces with no heart, and sometimes some smaller pairs. I am curious to hear your thoughts as to why you would never bet this turn.

mvoss · #10 11-11-2006, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't do this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is that a bad play?

[ QUOTE ]

The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is that your line, it seems to me that he could have called the flop with overs that he'll now fold or a draw that you don't want to give a free card.