A2s: Donks ahoy!

[waffle]

PFR is 34/11/1.4. Others unknown.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>,

[True]

I think I would often check/fold this spot however the only real draw out there is the heart flush draw. This is quite a threatening board to most players, the only problem that I see is your pair is very low which means that if you get called down by an "any pair will do" fish then they could have any pocket pair possible. I think if you have a hand like 77 it may better, just because it beats 66 55 44 33.

True

[sharpie]

I would check and see. I think villain raises when you're behind and calls when you're ahead, and he'll also autobet alot. I don't see the others being more apt to fold because you bet instead of the PFRer, so I can't really see a reason to donk.

[sharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would often check/fold this spot

[/ QUOTE ]

If it comes back for 1 bet I think we should be calling.

[Poliorcetes]

[ QUOTE ]
If it comes back for 1 bet I think we should be calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it comes back for 1 bet I think we should be folding. Two ways to look at it - first, we would be getting 11-1 on a 5-outer but with horrible reverse implied odds vs AK, second we've got only 3 to 3.5 outs getting 11-1 which isn't really enough in a spot like this.

I'd really like to know what the OP's thinking was with the donk, I just can't see it here.

[True]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it comes back for 1 bet I think we should be calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it comes back for 1 bet I think we should be folding. Two ways to look at it - first, we would be getting 11-1 on a 5-outer but with horrible reverse implied odds vs AK, second we've got only 3 to 3.5 outs getting 11-1 which isn't really enough in a spot like this.

I'd really like to know what the OP's thinking was with the donk, I just can't see it here.

[/ QUOTE ]

definitely check/call in this spot, your reverse implied odds are only against A8 / KK / AK and AA, if he has AQ/AJ/AT/KQ/KJ/KT your implied odds are good.

True

[waffle]

I wanted to continue past the flop. My old default play is to C/R if HU and C/C if multiway. I've been reading Byron Jacob's book and he recommends a lot of donks where I would usually c/r. Unfortunately I don't really have a lot of justifcation for it other than "put them on A high and donk".

[Poliorcetes]

True, true.

But - and I get a bit fuzzy here - shouldn't we either be discounting our Ace outs for the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] giving us very slim drawing odds, OR looking at our reverse implied odds where it will cost us an extra BB or two compared to our implied odds?

[True]

[ QUOTE ]
True, true.

But - and I get a bit fuzzy here - shouldn't we either be discounting our Ace outs for the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] giving us very slim drawing odds, OR looking at our reverse implied odds where it will cost us an extra BB or two compared to our implied odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, not sure abou that yet, I think we need to know a lot about villains range before we can delve any deeper. You do however bring up valid points, I don't know if it is definitely +EV to call vs this opponent on this board, however my assumptions and decision making skills believe that it would be. I would bet / call Ah turn and c/r A non heart turn.

True

[Caddy_4_Life]

Against 2 opponents maybe it's justified..against 3 opponents, OOP, a 11% pfr'er to act, a 2 tone board, bottom pair, the serious threat of it getting raised behind..I don't like it.

-Caddy