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#11
11-15-2007, 08:19 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
[ QUOTE ]
if he checks behind the turn with these ace high hands, then awesome, i got to the river for less than i would have if he just called the flop c/r. [/ QUOTE ] I hate that you bring this up, but good point nonetheless. I <3 that the "I'm going to unwittingly pwn myself w/ a free card 3bet" move is like the most overused play ever. 
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#12
11-15-2007, 08:20 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
i did think that was a pretty Odd thing to say (or thing for you to do).
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#13
11-15-2007, 08:43 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He will 3-bet a c/r with A-high so often [/ QUOTE ] lol really? also i just don't see how you can't checkraise this hand on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] The flop is a pretty easy C/R, I might even cap the flop if he 3-bet (though I don't think efficacy is 3-betting me with A hi as much as he does PJ, because I own him, LDO) - the problem is the turn - C/C is weak and let's him play the hand perfectly. But if I bet when I miss, I'm going to get raised a ton...
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#14
11-15-2007, 08:48 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
once he 3-bets i don't see why you would cap unless he's going to have and fold a hand like AK/AQ/AJ or completely overplay overpairs thinking you have top pair. if he will raise/calldown a diamond or J turn if you cap the flop, then it's probably worth it, especially if he actually folds the turn some % of the time after you cap the flop.
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#15
11-15-2007, 08:48 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
You have to bet though. One, to protect the times you have 99 or AT or whatever. Two, to further credibly rep something for the river bet when you don't improve (i.e. if you check the turn to him, you give up on any chance of taking the pot from AJ). Third, even if you get raised, you have >25% equity vs. AA, so you're not losing that much.
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#17
11-15-2007, 08:54 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
it's like the old times we used to play 0.25/0.50 2+2 games on party but now it just happens every hand between these guys.
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#18
11-15-2007, 08:55 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] if he checks behind the turn with these ace high hands, then awesome, i got to the river for less than i would have if he just called the flop c/r. [/ QUOTE ] I hate that you bring this up, but good point nonetheless. I <3 that the "I'm going to unwittingly pwn myself w/ a free card 3bet" move is like the most overused play ever. [/ QUOTE ] haha, i remember talking with you about this back in the old party days. After that, I tried a few different defenses to the ol' UI-overcard-flop-3-bet and I think I decided that capping the flop and leading the turn is better. So I'd do that with all decent draws and top pair+. Sometimes stuff like 2nd pair A/K-kicker. People would see I could have a pair in that spot so they started giving up on the turn with their overcards. Waiting to c/r the turn to raise is too risky cuz they used to rarely bet unless they had top pair. Nowadays, tbh, when ppl 3-bet me on the flop in Stars 10/15/30 games they almost always have a big draw or 2nd pair+. They still try it in FR games and live though.
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#19
11-15-2007, 08:58 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
[ QUOTE ]
If he 3-bets AK on the flop and calls down a cap UI, lol. I don't play these games but WTF are you guys doing on stars? [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking the same thing. 3-bet A high in that spot? If I wanted to go for a raise I'd do it on the turn as a FSD raise because I'd also play all of my pairs that way.
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#20
11-15-2007, 09:00 PM
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Re: Flop big draw OOP, no fold equity(?)
A-hi 3-betting a drawy board in position HU is so ridiculously standard in the Stars 5, though moreso when I c/r from the BB vs. a stealer.
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