50NL - AJ in EP multiway

Galwegian · #1 09-26-2007, 08:48 PM

How bad is this? The SB is a bit of a maniac - raising preflop with a lot of junk hands. No particular reads on the others.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($16)
BB ($37.25)
Hero ($50)
UTG+1 ($19.35)
MP1 ($37.25)
MP2 ($31.85)
MP3 ($83.05)
CO ($69.85)
Button ($9.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises to $1.5, Hero calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($5.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2, Hero calls $2, MP2 calls $2, CO calls $2, SB calls $2.

Turn: ($15.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

River: ($15.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $3, Hero calls $3, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: $21.50

Fiasco · #2 09-26-2007, 09:00 PM

Oh holmes, you done been naughty on this hand.

1) Fold this hand UTG.

2)This is a raise or fold situation on the flop. Thats way too drawy a board to have other people calling behind you.

3) You turn top two pair on a drawy board in a 5 handed pot and you check it? Why? Bet that puppy!

4) Go ahead and call the river, theres a decent chance youre beat but youre getting great odds.

5) Why did you give us a read on the SB when he barely did anything? did you mean the BB?

TNPhoenix · #3 09-26-2007, 09:12 PM

Stupid Q...if you cold called UTG and the BB raised to 1.5....how are you all only calling another .50 instead of $1?

ship_it_trebek · #4 09-26-2007, 09:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh holmes, you done been naughty on this hand.

1) Fold this hand UTG.

2)This is a raise or fold situation on the flop. Thats way too drawy a board to have other people calling behind you.

3) You turn top two pair on a drawy board in a 5 handed pot and you check it? Why? Bet that puppy!

4) Go ahead and call the river, theres a decent chance youre beat but youre getting great odds.

5) Why did you give us a read on the SB when he barely did anything? did you mean the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

This summarizes everything well

toymach776 · #5 09-27-2007, 12:56 AM

Fold those napkins preflop. why are you open limping this hand UTG? As played fold flop.

Galwegian · #6 09-27-2007, 08:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh holmes, you done been naughty on this hand.

1) Fold this hand UTG.

2)This is a raise or fold situation on the flop. Thats way too drawy a board to have other people calling behind you.

3) You turn top two pair on a drawy board in a 5 handed pot and you check it? Why? Bet that puppy!

4) Go ahead and call the river, theres a decent chance youre beat but youre getting great odds.

5) Why did you give us a read on the SB when he barely did anything? did you mean the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - I guess it was a bit naughty. Anyway

1) Folding is the standard TAG line, but do you really think that AJ is not playable UTG against an average NL50 table? If your answer is yes, what about AQ? I'm just trying to explore different possible lines.

2) OK, I should have bet. I guess I didn't bet cos I didn't know how I'd respond to a call or a raise. I didn't want to build a potentially big pot OOP with a dodgy hand

3) Check raise someone that just paired their ace?

4)

5) Yes - meant the BB

Sounded Simple · #7 09-27-2007, 09:27 AM

Well there was a debate on here recently about AQ UTG and the opinion was divided. However no-one thought it was any better than marginal UTG.
I suppose that makes AJ even worse therefore fold except for unusual circumstances.

CazicT · #8 09-27-2007, 10:42 AM

At the right table I might forgive a limp of AJ UTG, but you better be quite good at playing multi-way pots OOP. Since you knew the BB was a maniac though, I think you should just fold since now there's a bigger chance this pot will be raised and you really don't want to play this multi-way raised OOP. If the AJ were suited, then it is alot more playable.

When the flop comes and BB bets, you need to raise and hopefully isolate the BB. If you get further action from others then watch out. 5 hands saw this flop, even though you flopped OK, there is a good possibility somebody flopped better.

[ QUOTE ]
) OK, I should have bet. I guess I didn't bet cos I didn't know how I'd respond to a call or a raise. I didn't want to build a potentially big pot OOP with a dodgy hand

[/ QUOTE ]

This quote is a good lesson as to why folding preflop might have been better. Here you have TPTK (a pretty decent flop for AJo) and you still aren't comfortable...

Pretty much the same for the rest of the hand. You need to bet the turn. Once the river comes just get to the showdown as cheaply as possible and hope your hand held up.

Landlord79 · #9 09-27-2007, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh holmes, you done been naughty on this hand.

1) Fold this hand UTG.

2)This is a raise or fold situation on the flop. Thats way too drawy a board to have other people calling behind you.

3) You turn top two pair on a drawy board in a 5 handed pot and you check it? Why? Bet that puppy!

4) Go ahead and call the river, theres a decent chance youre beat but youre getting great odds.

5) Why did you give us a read on the SB when he barely did anything? did you mean the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

I want my 20 seconds back!

Galwegian · #10 09-27-2007, 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
At the right table I might forgive a limp of AJ UTG, but you better be quite good at playing multi-way pots OOP. Since you knew the BB was a maniac though, I think you should just fold since now there's a bigger chance this pot will be raised and you really don't want to play this multi-way raised OOP. If the AJ were suited, then it is alot more playable.

When the flop comes and BB bets, you need to raise and hopefully isolate the BB. If you get further action from others then watch out. 5 hands saw this flop, even though you flopped OK, there is a good possibility somebody flopped better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. I often wonder about this. Very often a big distinction is made between hands like AJo and AJs preflop. But is AJs really that much more valuable than its offsuit sibling? What percentage of flops will contain at least 2 of your suit? I don't know the exact numbers - but it must be pretty small and even when you do flop a good draw, you aren't guaranteed to extract a lot of value - especially OOP.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
) OK, I should have bet. I guess I didn't bet cos I didn't know how I'd respond to a call or a raise. I didn't want to build a potentially big pot OOP with a dodgy hand

[/ QUOTE ]

This quote is a good lesson as to why folding preflop might have been better. Here you have TPTK (a pretty decent flop for AJo) and you still aren't comfortable...

Pretty much the same for the rest of the hand. You need to bet the turn. Once the river comes just get to the showdown as cheaply as possible and hope your hand held up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well I didn't say that I was unhappy with the whole situation - just that I was not feeling strong enough to bet out - there is a difference. I guess I was happy with the flop but I didn't want to play a big pot. To be sure, if the action heats up, I'm going to let this hand go, but my goal on the flop was to try to find a line that will get me a cheap showdown.

The turn (obv) made me like my hand a lot more. I agree that I should probably have bet out, but I though about going for a checkraise hopefully against a weaker ace. I think the call on the river was easy, given the strength of my hand at that point.