is FPS becoming a new trend for SMTT 2+2ers?

ssnyc · #1 10-12-2007, 10:51 AM

guys...seems like lately there have been a lot of posts where people are trying to outplay opponents with fancy moves and bluffs...It tends not to work at low blind levels and low stakes!!!!

Value is king and focus on using reads to determine the best way to extract chips when you actually have a hand rather than trying to tell a story to a donk who could care less...

Late in tournies where chips get more value and opponents are often a little better you can start putting pressure and repping hands in spots...bottom line is people will pay you when you have the best hand...don't waste chips (unless you have a specific read) on a far fetched eloborate bluff when you are better than the competition...

That is all.....

ettorek · #2 10-12-2007, 11:35 AM

You made a good point: I think that playing by the book isn't a bad thing especially in the early phase of the mtt.
Fancy moves works better later when people has invested enough time to risk all in crazy bluffs: the problem is when some maniac has enough luck to build a stack early and continue to bluff all the way ....

BarryLyndon · #3 10-12-2007, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You made a good point: I think that playing by the book isn't a bad thing especially in the early phase of the mtt.
Fancy moves works better later when people have invested enough time to risk all in crazy bluffs: the problem is when some maniac has enough luck to build a stack early and continue to bluff all the way ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Judging from going deep in the 24K last night and seeing what some regulars did during the 4th and 5th hour, it seems like: 1. "FPS" works much better when the blinds/antes get huge and players tighten up - much of flop play seems to be playing chicken with stack sizes; 2. continuation bets get almost NO respect, which means I hardly used them when I missed, but made damn sure that when I hit I made my bet look as close to a cont. bet as possible. I think that one strong, "fancy" bluff on a flop is necessary to chip up near a final table.

I think that fancy play early is retarted because you are not going to get rid of the riff raff who will call you down light. Play IMPROVES after the 2nd hour, usually, but before that, it's just ignorant and terrible. The key, IMO, is to simply play fundamental stack size poker and keep an eye out for resteals and what not. Deep during the first and second hours, as I pointed out before, I love to raise open 2.5xBB from varying positions. You do that a few times and then when you get a big hand, you are likely to get paid off so monstrously it's sick.

Having said that, I think that "fancy" play works better against medium stacks. You just have to get a feel for your opponents - who is willing to risk it on the flop, who is going to fold a huge chunk after making a standard cont. bet, and so on. Last night, I observed more than practiced, because I was waiting for ANYTHING decent to make a play, but got nothing. Still, it was kinduv obv. that [censored] with the 500K stack that put it all-in with 78o for a 60BB pot wasn't going anywhere to a big move with my 200K stack. Of course, that sicko finished in the top 3. But, there were other medium stacks that were just hoping that their cont. bets and what not would work, and you have to have the courage to FPS them a little if you have overs or a draw or something. I had none of those, which makes me wonder if I will have that courage if the moment arises in the future.

Barry

CobraGoat · #4 10-12-2007, 12:11 PM

Barry, whats your screen name? I went out in the 24K last night 108 when my AKs "resteal" was crushed by 55.

BTW, i played like 8 hands total to get 3+hrs deep last night nothing at all fancy. Had I won the above hand I would have been top 18 in chips w 100 left. ITs straightforward solid play combined with paying attention that is profitable at SSMTTs. Honestly FPS is rarely correct in any form of poker.

ZenMusician · #5 10-12-2007, 12:32 PM

This was mentioned before, but it's not just the 2p2ers.

People are limping AA-QQ a LOT...usually regardless of
position, but particularly EP. It kills me when I am
trying to punish Limptards with AQ in very LP and flop
the Q.

I think this was mentioned in another thread, and may not
be appropriate to hijack here, but do we lose our ~10Mish
stacks to this play every time?

-ZEN

ettorek · #6 10-12-2007, 12:37 PM

Yeah Barry, also seen the same things but never got a decent hand to shove when the big bully stack was raising for the 100th with absolute trash.
Agree with you on opening with average hand trying to get action later: but this kind of move pay you more on ring games when you'll play longer with the same people.

ssnyc · #7 10-12-2007, 12:46 PM

zen late position with M of 10 you should have enough chips to raise in position with AQ...if they flat you with AA and you flop a Q high then yes...chit happens

ZenMusician · #8 10-12-2007, 01:03 PM

Yeah, didn't mean to sound retarded!

I did just find THIS thread and read Barry's post (which is a very good strategy adjustment IMO).

It's hard not to overplay TPTK against known limptards who you've been waiting to stack.

What are we limping in with as a big stack, since many CL's seem to enjoy limping along either IP or sandwiched in?

-ZEN

ssnyc · #9 10-12-2007, 01:06 PM

CL wil limp a wide range intending to call pushes from smaller stacks and fold to medium to bigger ones...you'll seea lot of suited junk and worse..J 10 offish type hands...not my usual strategy to waste chips from EP but works for a lot of psychos

cheburashka · #10 10-12-2007, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This was mentioned before, but it's not just the 2p2ers.

People are limping AA-QQ a LOT...usually regardless of
position, but particularly EP. It kills me when I am
trying to punish Limptards with AQ in very LP and flop
the Q.

I think this was mentioned in another thread, and may not
be appropriate to hijack here, but do we lose our ~10Mish
stacks to this play every time?

-ZEN

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand all the hostility to limping AA/KK from EP.

I think a lot people (Sklansky, for one) would agree that it makes sense often to limp small PP from EP. And a lot of people (Ed Miller, for one) advocate not playing really speculative drawing hands (e.g. small SCs) from EP.

So how can we limp EP with small PP and not announce to the world that that's what we're doing every time? Shouldn't we be mixing it up, partly by raising the small PP up sometimes, but also by limping in once in a while with a monster?

And if we're all (including me) complaining that we're stacking off to EP limpers with our TPTK hands raised up from LP, maybe it's not such a bad thing to try. I'm not saying always or even often, just sometimes.