Small pair preflop

[neurotiq]

I think a call getting 5:1 is just fine. Since we're up against the PFR, we're very likely to make up all the bets and more implied postflop.

[Harv72b]

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I've heard this over and over again. Can somebody provide me an example where it would be correct to fold to a single raise preflop after putting in one bet in limit hold'em? Misclicks and posting do not count!

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Most examples involve cases where you made an initial mistake preflop, generally involving making a bad completion from the SB (followed by a BB raise). I.e., 2 limpers & you complete in the SB with Q5o. Rock in the BB raises, limpers call, and while you're getting 7:1, against his raise you are almost always drawing to a two pair or trips. Another (far-fetched) example would be 4 limpers to you in the SB, you complete with 74s, BB raises, and everyone inexplicably folds.

Like I said...very rarely, except perhaps in blind vs. blind situations where you open-complete & get raised by a passive/straightforward BB.

[BadBigBabar]

harv, that second example with 74s is an instacall with all that dead money in the pot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Harv72b]

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harv, that second example with 74s is an instacall with all that dead money in the pot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Yeah, I should've made it two limpers, which basically restates the first example. Or made the BB extremely passive and/or weak. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[MoonOrb]

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This might be an extreme example but if in this hand after SB raises BB UTG and CO all fold then it's only 5:1. Is that too unrealistic?

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Even then I think it's correct to call. At worst, your equity is 18.5% against a higher PP, and each time you're not facing a higher PP. A lot of the time you're facing two overcards. Against those hands, your equity is slightly over 50%. If you think the raise represents AA-TT , AKs, AKo, and AQs only, you're a 2:1 underdog in the hand.

(AA-TT, 30 combos where your equity is roughly 20% + AKs-AQs, 20 combos where your equity is roughly 50%; .2 + .12=.32).

Of course, it's not as if you're all in; you still have to play the flop, turn, and river. But if we were to assume that you c/c to the showdown, you'd be putting in 2 more SB and 2 BB at the most, and the pot would contain 8 SB + 4 BB for a total of 8 BB, and from the point that the action is on your after the SB's raise, you'd be putting in 3 of them. This is slightly more than your equity, but the extra bets you win when you hit a set and the bets you save when you fold when an A hits the flop should make up for this.

Does this sound reasonable? Or have I [censored] this all up?

[Blzdwrath]

I could imagine limping in UTG with a very speculative hand and being raised by the BB being one of those times, however I've never done it myself.

[Aaron W.]

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I could imagine limping in UTG with a very speculative hand and being raised by the BB being one of those times, however I've never done it myself.

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Don't throw away position!

[Fadook]

:g:

Absolutely do not fold. You're getting 9:1, and it's 7.5:1 to hit a set. It doesn't matter that SB almost certainly has you beat right now.

[Douglas Leslie]

Once you limp in you have to keep going after the raise. On a good day the raiser will hit his ace when you hit your set. Then you stand to make a bit of money.