78s line deep: 600NL

[annex21]

fwiw i would be the flop almost 100% of the time as the initial raiser with a hand like 78 that has no showdown value.

[mendacity]

The river raise is for value or bluff?

[Montezuma21]

cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

[TNUC]

this is a very confusing hand and when im confused and can beat AA i usually call. But unless this guy is crazy i think we have to fold here

[Laetus]

I like a call pre-flop, b/c we will be able to make him do bigger mistakes on flop and later streets.

[illuminati]

I also think the river raise is gash

[jlocdog]

[ QUOTE ]
cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I don't mind a flop check is because this is a good flop for him to either bluff raise you because of the likely hood that it missed your hand as well or he likely has a hand that is willing to peel a card with while you have garbage). I also c-bet less then most on these boards and this seems like a good time to mix your play and bet ANY turn card. The fact that we hit it should not make a difference since we are folding to any c/r there regardless of us hitting the turn.

As played, I would not have raised the river bet. Fold to the shove. But if you had bet the turn, you would have gotten your desired 2 streets worth of value and not needed to force the action with this thin river raise.

[cbboy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I don't mind a flop check is because this is a good flop for him to either bluff raise you because of the likely hood that it missed your hand as well or he likely has a hand that is willing to peel a card with while you have garbage). I also c-bet less then most on these boards and this seems like a good time to mix your play and bet ANY turn card. The fact that we hit it should not make a difference since we are folding to any c/r there regardless of us hitting the turn.

As played, I would not have raised the river bet. Fold to the shove. But if you had bet the turn, you would have gotten your desired 2 streets worth of value and not needed to force the action with this thin river raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[skier_5]

bet the flop, betting has way more leverage than normal because we are deep. getting bluff raised won't happen nearly as often and his range is composed of many more speculative hands (than a 100bb) that will just c/f the flop OOP.

[Number36]

[ QUOTE ]
The river raise is for value or bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

eh? what better hand is he ever folding? Not raising for value on river is criminal imo. I fold to the push.

With these stacks I also c-bet flop here a lot.