Limit O/8 - Flopped nut full house

[Swedebubba]

Party Poker
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Villain (MP3) is loose (35%) and passive but with a fairly high Won$AtSD (65%).

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
4 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero calls, BB checks.

After playing back this hand I don´t see why I didn´t raise preflop. Should I raise this high double suited hand in this position to reveal the strength of the hand?

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
<font color="#cc3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

After the raise by MP3, I figured I had the nuts and did not want to scare BB and MP2 away. My thinking was to go for a checkraise on turn. Should I have reraised ?

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#cc3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#cc3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc3333">Hero Caps</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

I was not sure what MP3 had but I figured he must be on a lower full house. Should I not have capped?

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (16.5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Here I start thinking again (after being in my winning heaven...) Did he have 55xx ? So after his raise I call to see him down. Wrong again? Should I have folded ?

/Swedebubba

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I raise this high double suited hand in this position to reveal the strength of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Swedebubba - Hard to say. You have a nice starting hand, but it suffers because it contains two middle cards. You're basically primarily playing a pair of aces with two nut flush draws.

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking was to go for a checkraise on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the player in last position is the one who is raising! Go for a check-raise on the turn and you'll probably blow away your customers!

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have reraised?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I don't think you want to possibly force your two limping opponents out of the pot with an early double bet (on the second betting round). You want to pull them in here, rather than push them out. Just call here (and then bet hoping for a raise on the next betting round).

[ QUOTE ]
I was not sure what MP3 had but I figured he must be on a lower full house. Should I not have capped?

[/ QUOTE ]

After you (incorrectly) check raise on the third betting round, I think the cap is correct. You might be up against quads here, but a smaller full house, perhaps fives over aces, is more likely. You do want to jamb here, but ideally without forcing anyone to initially call a double bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Here I start thinking again (after being in my winning heaven...) Did he have 55xx ? So after his raise I call to see him down. Wrong again? Should I have folded?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have raised again. You certainly shouldn't fold.

Buzz

[webmonarch]

In my mind, this is the type of hand that you go down blazing on. He could have a world of other hands that you have creamed. It doesn't look like the villain has any intention of letting up the betting, and only one hand, 55xx has you beat.

If he has it, so be it (you can pay it with a smile) but at this level, in a limit game I am capping at all streets and happily paying off when he shows me quads. You are just going to be up against a lesser hand too many other times to worry about the occasional miracle quad hand.

[wheatrich]

Cap that river next time. (err you can't--but you made a mistake not raising. You want as much of your $ as you can get in here.)

Oh and I think you should reraise the flop. Low draws aren't folding here. (I'm surprised somebody did apparently on the turn though)

Cap that turn. That's one of the most automatic caps you will ever have in your life.

[davebreal]

"Flopped top set, turned nut full house"

[chaos]

I would not raise preflop.

I would bet the flop but just call the raise. It would be nice if a reraise could guarantee that you would get heads up. Also there are plenty of scare cards for you. A 2, 3, or 4 could give someone a wheel and any other low card will likely cost you half the pot. Sets, even Aces, are vulnerable hands.

I would bet out on the turn hoping to trap some callers between you and the raiser. You also do not want to give the low draws a free card by checking, since the board pairing may scare MP3. If you bet and get raised, jam it.

Jam it on the river. You will only see quads about one time out of twenty.

[Swedebubba]

Thanks for your comments. They have been logical and valuable.

Result:
Villain of course turned over 5534 and scooped.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain of course turned over 5534 and scooped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Swedebubba - Bummer.

As Chaos points out, the odds against Villain having quad fives are about twenty to one. That's correct looking at things from the standpoint of this number of opponents having been dealt various hands.

After this flop, from Hero's vantage point, logical raising hands for Villain might be:
• 234X,
• 55XY,
• 99XY,
• A5XY,
• A9XY, or maybe even
• 59XY, or worse.

After the board pairs with fives on the turn, I know players who would raise with 234X. But let's assume that Villain has something for high. To keep it simple, lets give Villain
2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] plus two cards that fit with this flop to make a full house or better for high. In that case, Villain could have
• 2355
• 2399
• 235A, or
• 2359.

A raise on the flop and then the turn makes sense with all of these hands. There's only one way Villain can have the monster-uner-the-bed 2355 hand, but seven ways Villain might have one of the other possible hands listed above. Or Villain could have 24 or 34 coupled with 55, 99, 5A, or 59 and the same seven to one ratio would apply for all of them. And of course, Villain could be raising with garbage.

Anyhow, twenty to one against, seven to one against, or whatever be damned. Villain had that one hand that beats Hero.

Bummer.

Buzz