NYC poker: safety and legalization

[psandman]

And people wearing suist can't be degenerate gamblers with bad credit and financial problems and flawed concept of probability.

[TMTTR]

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Edgar went to jail for calling the police during an armed robbery

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Doubt he knew what was coming but that's neither here not there...


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And so I don't waste another post, TT's point on the lottery and other state-sanctioned gambling that often feeds on those members of society who can least afford it -- the point is well taken but also explicitly exempt from the ban by the NYS Constitution. God save the legislature and their revenue streams.

[AKHobbes]

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I know some club owners won't report a robbery because they don't want the police to know of their location.

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Your KNOW this? prove it. I dont think you can. Edgar went to jail for calling the police during an armed robbery, there is far more evidence that suggests club owners encourage police cooperation than any anecdotal evidence that suggests owners will ignore the safety of their patrons by not communicating with the police department after a robbery.

Seriously... blanket statements about something you guess is true only creates more problems. Sure its possible that there is a bad egg in the community, but the vast majority of operators have been on the level.

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I was a dealer for a few clubs in NYC and out in LI. You can private message me for that info. The stories about Edgar calling the police after getting robbed didn't help. I don't know why you're so antagonistic all the time...

[piggity]

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And people wearing suist can't be degenerate gamblers with bad credit and financial problems and flawed concept of probability.

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psandman,

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but have you actually played in any of the Manhattan clubs in the last couple of years? If so, which ones (since they're all closed anyway)? My observations are based on my play at PlaySation, *****, ****** and others during the last 4 or so years when I lived in Manhattan.

mod note - no names please. Playstation is fair game because its been discussed in the press

[psandman]

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And people wearing suist can't be degenerate gamblers with bad credit and financial problems and flawed concept of probability.

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psandman,

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but have you actually played in any of the Manhattan clubs in the last couple of years? If so, which ones (since they're all closed anyway)? My observations are based on my play at PlaySation, *****, **** and others during the last 4 or so years when I lived in Manhattan.

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No i haven't but the point is that poker is not some haven for the educated gnetleman gambler as opposed to the lottery being for degenerates. I know people who have played in NYC clubs during the time frame yiou describe. Some were educated professionals, but some were clueless degenerate gamblers, and and among them you might not be able to tell the difference from casual conversation, or by the way they dress.

[FireStorm]

I agree with the above, we are vastly overstating the caliber of player in these games. I don't doubt some are well educated/solid players/people with smart bankroll management, but to say that poker is an attraction to this demographic is obscenely wrong. Generally, poker clubs are marketing just as much to degenerate gamblers who don't know the game.

[*TT*]

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I know some club owners won't report a robbery because they don't want the police to know of their location.

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Your KNOW this? prove it. I dont think you can. Edgar went to jail for calling the police during an armed robbery, there is far more evidence that suggests club owners encourage police cooperation than any anecdotal evidence that suggests owners will ignore the safety of their patrons by not communicating with the police department after a robbery.

Seriously... blanket statements about something you guess is true only creates more problems. Sure its possible that there is a bad egg in the community, but the vast majority of operators have been on the level.

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I was a dealer for a few clubs in NYC and out in LI. You can private message me for that info. The stories about Edgar calling the police after getting robbed didn't help. I don't know why you're so antagonistic all the time...

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avoid making false statements based on what you assume is true, not what you can prove is true, and you wont ever see my antagonistic side. A simple change of wording to say "I always assumed" rather than "I know" solves your problem. I just got off the phone with one of the investors in the room that was robbed and we were talking about your blanket statement, he agrees thats the farthest thing from the truth. Even back in Playstation days they called the cops to stop a fight - life and safety is far more valuable that money, if the club owners dont provide a safe environment there will be no players. There is a trust relationship between the house and the player, it must be maintained at all costs.

[baiter]

Can everyone please stop straying from the point of this thread? Poker is for all people; the law does not discriminate between "uneducated, degenerate gamblers" and "professionals."

I propose that someone who writes very well draft a letter that we can all sign and send to the proper people (including Mayor Bloomberg, an avid player himself). What happened to Frank is a tragedy of major proportions; however, what makes it even worse is that IT COULD BE PREVENTED. Of course there is inherent risk in everything one does - simply existing is dangerous. Yet nobody can argue that a legal poker club is not substantially safer than an illegal poker club. A legal club would attract real business/businessmen, who would invest in security and who wouldn't be overlooked by police (calling the police wouldn't even be an issue, though I can't believe it is now). Competition would make sure that only the best remain in business. (In this case, however, I wouldn't necessarily oppose government-run establishments).

The recent busts/robberies/murder provide us an opportunity for a serious solution and we must strike while the iron is hot.

P.S. If another non-New Yorker tells me to "suck it up just drive to AC" one more time I'm going to freaking explode...

[nineinchal]

Suck it up and drive to AC...

[craigruby]