45 man turbos

jme1222 · #1 10-03-2007, 10:03 PM

The 45 man turbos seem to be my best game because I guess I'm good at being a push bot. The following hand is an example of the types of situations I feel I'm losing chips in:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO (t1730)
Button (t8625)
SB (t2930)
jme1222 (t3605)
UTG (t2495)
MP (t1070)

Preflop: jme1222 is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls t200, 1 fold, SB completes, jme1222 checks.

Flop: (t600) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, jme1222 bets t350, CO raises to t1530, SB folds, jme1222 calls t1180.

Turn: (t3660) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t3660) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t3660

Results in white below: 
jme1222 has Jc 8d (one pair, jacks).
CO has Kd Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: CO wins t3660. 

I'm guessing his range is FD, OESD, Qx, Jx?, underpair.... is 2-1 good enough for 1/3rd of my stack? I don't do pokerstove yet. Your thoughts are appreciated!

Kimbell175113 · #2 10-03-2007, 10:16 PM

I think this relates to gobbo's thread a lot.

When you bet the flop you are bluffing, imo. If they fold you win, and if they don't you're smoked a large percentage of the time. Your cards have nothing to do with the bet, you might as well have 72o. It's a bluff, and it seems strange to bluff and then call a shove.

edit: yes, he could have a draw. The thing that matters is that, even with the draws in there, his range is ahead of yours, imo. When he has you beat, he has you beat bad, and when he has a flush draw and one over, he almost has you beat.

jme1222 · #3 10-03-2007, 10:21 PM

ok, but my odds are 2-1. I know his range has me beat, but do I have better than 33% equity is the question.

Cleverbeans · #4 10-03-2007, 10:45 PM

Firstly, the CO flat calls when he should be pushing - that alone is suspicious. In turbos you'll often find big hands limped to try and get a stack behind to shove over trying to pick up dead money. Secondly, you have middle pair and a weak kicker out of position three handed, I don't think you should be leading this flop unless you have a strong hand.

Your odds might be 2-1 on the call, and it's possible that you're getting a good price versus his range, but don't forget you priced yourself in by making a bad raise on the flop. If you'd have made a better decision there, you'd wouldn't be trying to catch up for nearly half your stack.

pudhu · #5 10-04-2007, 12:25 AM

With the stacks this small I don't think you have too many different lines as options. I don't think the flop bet is too terrible because he could probably be limping with a small pair or any lame suited combination at least a third of the time. You could very easily be drawing dead against a QJs, straight draw in which your two-pair makes a straight, flush draw, or a combo draw.

If I peg the player to be decent I would c/f this flop easily. Maybe a bit weak but the button is coming up and you can find a better spot.

Sherman · #6 10-04-2007, 12:46 AM

Think about what you are trying to accomplish with this flop. Think about your opponents' hand ranges.

Now, on this flop, would you really like to get it all in against their all-in hand ranges? I really don't think you would.

So either:
1) Check/fold or check/call (basically check/re-evaluate) the flop

or

2) Bet/fold the flop, if you are trying to protect what might be the best hand against draws.

I think the likelihood that our hand is best is low enough that we should be check/re-evaluating here every time.

Kimbell175113 · #7 10-04-2007, 12:49 AM

Honestly, I think check/raise is better than bet/call, because you're basically against the same range minus a few JX's that have you drawing dead. (He's not folding a draw, because he'd be getting the same 2-1 that you are now.)

Check-fold is still by far the best, though, unless this villain is very unusual.

morphball · #8 10-04-2007, 09:47 AM

How long are the blind levels in Pstars 45-man turbos?

udbrky · #9 10-04-2007, 10:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ok, but my odds are 2-1. I know his range has me beat, but do I have better than 33% equity is the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you put him on a better J, or Q, you're at best a 4:1 dog. If he has overs and a FD or SD, you're even money. One over and a FD, you're about 58%. I think given the action, with another person in the pot, and 0 fold equity, you're farther behind than the New York Mets. I'm folding.

loosemmjan · #10 10-04-2007, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How long are the blind levels in Pstars 45-man turbos?

[/ QUOTE ]

5 Minutes